Hoppe Rambow cues on ebay

[runscott]

Just find it interesting, as I was the seller of that Rambow, that Joe and others went a long way to discredit it down to the K-Y comments and thought the rest of you might as well. If you visit the now ended auction and read the reply to the last question you with see the complete text, verbatim, of a hand written letter on Pool Table Magic Stationary, signed by Mark, extolling the virtues of the cue and the excellant job by Joel and it's implied value.

I guess it just depends on who is selling it. Double standard comes to mind. What I sell is good, what you sell is crap, sound familiar???? I would be happy to fax a copy of the letter to anyone who cares to read it. Guess this cue that was refinished in 1995 and promoted by Mark the same year after the refinish is now worth a lot less now that they are not selling it. Again happy to fax the letter to substantiate this.
P.S. Glad it's over.

Skip, I don't think it mattered who was selling it - if anything, you received some good references here that should have helped it sell better. Also, I thought the discussions here would push the value up, given that some posters thought the fact that Deno had appraised it was enough - but they didn't bid.

And based on Deno's comments here, I thought there must be some good detail in the provenance to substantiate his findings, and that you would add that to your auction description. You eventually pasted in some of his comments from this forum, but that description needed a re-write to help the cue sell better.

To me, it looked like a really beautiful Brunswick Willie Hoppe re-build by a top-notch cue-maker. The fact that Rambow had built the original cue for Brunswick and that some of the wood from the original cue was still present, was a bonus that should have added to the value.

 

[cueaddicts]

To the best of my knowledge Joe you did not read the appraisal. When appraising one-of-a-kind antiques, valuation is based on replacement value. I don't expect you to know that. Anyway, try finding another Fully Restored Rambow that was meticulously restored like this one by one of the best cue makers ever...it would cost right around what the cue was appraised for to have a replacement done, and maybe more. Anybody can sell anything they want on ebay and get rock bottom for it any given week. And anyone can wait around for steals on ebay. Ebay is not the market. If the cue was lost or stolen, what would it cost to get another just like it or very close to it? The answer is my valuation range.

By the way, your usage of "thingy's" is grossly wrong in your tag line...

Deno,

I did......and if I were the seller I'd be pissed that I wasted the $300. It was a nice write up on the cue but very unfortunate for him....WAY OFF THE MARK on the appraisal. My thoughts are that replacement value here would be more like the following:

~ $800 for a beat up, damaged Rambow (nobody in their right mind would starts off with a serviceable one before doing that amount of resto work)
~ $800-$1000 for the repairs, shafts
---------------------------------------
roughly $1600-$1800 (but not $1000 more)

This is in no way knocking the cue or taking anything away from Joel. The work that was done on this cue appears from the pictures to be exceptional and it's a nice piece.

And to the seller, the comments made on this post did absolutely nothing to your auction. ***Most folks that are into custom cues are not even looking for Rambows, and if they are, the focus is the original ones, like Deno has pointed out so many times before. It is very rare for any Rambow to pull more than $1500-$2000 in today's market.

Deno, you called classiccues to the fire on refinishing Bushkas on RSB and dogged them, and now you must take your medicine. You wanted to be the Rambow expert for this new blue book, now you need to sit back and take it like a man and stop dodging and changing the issue.

Respectfully,
Sean

 

[runscott]

To the best of my knowledge Joe you did not read the appraisal. When appraising one-of-a-kind antiques, valuation is based on replacement value. I don't expect you to know that. Anyway, try finding another Fully Restored Rambow that was meticulously restored like this one by one of the best cue makers ever...it would cost right around what the cue was appraised for to have a replacement done, and maybe more. Anybody can sell anything they want on ebay and get rock bottom for it any given week. And anyone can wait around for steals on ebay. Ebay is not the market. If the cue was lost or stolen, what would it cost to get another just like it or very close to it? The answer is my valuation range.

Here's a Rambow on the "Billiardcue" site for $2,150. Description doesn't say if any restoration work has been done, or if there is provenance.
http://www.billiardcue.com/cues.php?view=1&search_letter=r

 

[Deno J. Andrews]

Sean,

I said the work done by an A-list cue maker. Now I don't know who you would have restore a cue like that...but the numbers I would expect to pay to a qualified A-list cue maker are a little different.

To start, finding a Rambow with provenance (the key point), would cost more than $800. Rambows without provenance go for $1000-$1500. Someone just paid $900+ on ebay for a Hoppe Titlist that 'might' have been made by Rambow at the Brunswick shop because it had a name on the forearm (something Brunswick offered for a few $$$).

http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-RAMBOW-POOL...202022762QQcategoryZ21212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Finding a piece with a history to Rambow's shop with no ownership gaps, that is not warped or cracked, that can be restored to this sort of condition, would cost more than $800. In fact, if you think that they are so available at that price, I'll pay you $1000 for every one of them you can find me that fit the criteria as long as you are willing to pay me $200 for every one that sells for more than $850...deal? If you are so sure of your number, this deal is like stealing isn't it? Virtual hand shake on it?

Again, I don't know with whom you work when it comes to cue restoration, but I wouldn't trust a house cue with someone who would only charge $800-$1000 for all the work that went into this cue. I recently had South West refinish/wrap (linen) a satin cue (not nearly as difficult as their regular finish) and make one shaft and the bill was a few dollars less than $600.

Deno

 

[cueaddicts]

Sean,

I said the work done by an A-list cue maker. Now I don't know who you would have restore a cue like that...but the numbers I would expect to pay to a qualified A-list cue maker are a little different.

To start, finding a Rambow with provenance (the key point), would cost more than $800. Rambows without provenance go for $1000-$1500. Someone just paid $900+ on ebay for a Hoppe Titlist that 'might' have been made by Rambow at the Brunswick shop because it had a name on the forearm (something Brunswick offered for a few $$$).

http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-RAMBOW-POOL...202022762QQcategoryZ21212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Finding a piece with a history to Rambow's shop with no ownership gaps, that is not warped or cracked, that can be restored to this sort of condition, would cost more than $800. In fact, if you think that they are so available at that price, I'll pay you $1000 for every one of them you can find me that fit the criteria as long as you are willing to pay me $200 for every one that sells for more than $850...deal? If you are so sure of your number, this deal is like stealing isn't it? Virtual hand shake on it?

Again, I don't know with whom you work when it comes to cue restoration, but I wouldn't trust a house cue with someone who would only charge $800-$1000 for all the work that went into this cue. I recently had South West refinish/wrap (linen) a satin cue (not nearly as difficult as their regular finish) and make one shaft and the bill was a few dollars less than $600.

Deno

Deno,

Hey, let's try to stay on the issue.

But yeah, I saw where not just someone, but Rick (a very astute collector and buyer) paid a little over $900 for that cue. So what? Regardless of that OR the nicer and all-original Rambow that's one eBay now (which I think is a doubtful sell at $2000 because IMO that's pretty high market value) OR who I might select to do any refinish or restoration work OR whether I can locate any junked our cues to fulfill your whim and challenged bet.

Yet again, Deno, you distance yourself from this issue that Joe has brought to the table.....which is your double standard. Oh, how silly of me. I should have seen the writing on the wall. You are not going to post an adequate response to this.

Personally, I feel sorry for this guy that only got $1225 for his cue. But when the winning bidder is "3cplayer" you've got to wonder.....

Tell us, is this going into your collection as a Rambow or as a Hercek?

Sean

 

[icon]

Tell us, is this going into your collection as a Rambow or as a Hercek?

he answered that in post #47 of this really boring thread

 

[runscott]

...Someone just paid $900+ on ebay for a Hoppe Titlist that 'might' have been made by Rambow at the Brunswick shop because it had a name on the forearm (something Brunswick offered for a few $$$).

http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-RAMBOW-POOL...202022762QQcategoryZ21212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Finding a piece with a history to Rambow's shop with no ownership gaps, that is not warped or cracked, that can be restored to this sort of condition, would cost more than $800....

Deno

Yes, but according to the seller, your provenance states: "Full splice Wille Hoppe Titlist conversion model". Are you saying that the re-built Hercek cue is a Willie Hoppe that was made in Rambow's shop rather than the Brunswick shop? I thought Rambow actually worked at Brunswick, but it sounds like you are saying that they contracted work out to him.

 

[Deno J. Andrews]

Yes, but according to the seller, your provenance states: "Full splice Wille Hoppe Titlist conversion model". Are you saying that the re-built Hercek cue is a Willie Hoppe that was made in Rambow's shop rather than the Brunswick shop? I thought Rambow actually worked at Brunswick, but it sounds like you are saying that they contracted work out to him.

Rambow worked at Brunswick for most of his life with one significant gap in the early 1900s when he decided to go off on his own. That didn't last long. Late in his career Brunswick basically retired him and told him he could take his equipment with him. He took some space and made cues out of his own shop until his death in 1967. Pretty much all of the cues he made after leaving Brunswick were made from Titlist blanks that he purchased from Brunswick. Much like Balabushka, he would make cues out of outsourced blanks. Almost every Rambow from the time he left Brunswick to 1967 was what I consider a Titlist Conversion cue, no different than what cue makers today do with Titlist house cues. You can read the whole story in the BB3.

Deno