How can I teach someone force follow?

[Billy_Bob]

I am having trouble teaching a friend force follow. He wants to learn. I can do it. He watches me do it. But he can't do it himself. I even tried letting him use my cue thinking that may be it. But that didn't help. I don't know what to tell him to do???

I can shoot the following shot, but he can't...
(I hit with top left force follow so the cue ball is spinning faster forward than it is moving (opposite of draw shot) and hit the 1 ball with a half ball hit on the left side, then the cue ball wants to move diagonally backwards but the forward roll and left takes over and makes the ball curve toward the left corner pocket sinking the 3 ball. When my friend does this, the cue ball comes diagonally backwards where the "B" arrow is pointing.

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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

 

[greenkill]

I think he needs to understand what is happening when a force follow occurs. When the ball is coming off the bumper, its not rolling. It is sliding to it loses all momentum. Then the potential energy stored within the spinning takes over the moment of the ball.

Make sure he is hitting fairly hard, so the spin is still carried over when hitting the bumper.

 

[CaptainJR]

A couple things I can think of. The most obvious would be, he is hitting it to thin, but I would imagine you have already made sure this isn't the case. More likely it's that he doesn't have enough stroke on the ball to use force follow from that distance. That is not an easy shot from there. Have him put the cue ball a little closer to the one. Just on the one ball side of the side pocket.

One other thing I make sure to do when I'm going to use force follow is, I enclose my bridge a little making sure the tip doesn't glance up to much. Oh yea, make sure he is using a closed bridge, not open.

 

[Billy_Bob]

A couple things I can think of. The most obvious would be, he is hitting it to thin, but I would imagine you have already made sure this isn't the case. More likely it's that he doesn't have enough stroke on the ball to use force follow from that distance. That is not an easy shot from there. Have him put the cue ball a little closer to the one. Just on the one ball side of the side pocket.

One other thing I make sure to do when I'm going to use force follow is, I enclose my bridge a little making sure the tip doesn't glance up to much. Oh yea, make sure he is using a closed bridge, not open.

I use a short closed bridge (about 5 or 6 inches) and had him do the same. His bridge was a little further back (maybe 9 inches) than mine.

He was not hitting the 1 ball in the correct place at first, but he now does that.

FYI - I also had trouble teaching him jump shots. I think the speed of the hit was not there. I finially told him to make the "loudest" bang possible, then that got his ball jumping.

Does follow through matter on a force follow like on a draw shot? Maybe in addition to speed, he is "poking" rather than following through?

And how about level cue or possibly a little upwards pointing?

(I think I use a level cue, fast hit, and follow through, but not sure. Maybe I will video tape myself and see exactly what I am doing and exactly what the cue ball is doing...)

 

[hax]

Does follow through matter on a force follow like on a draw shot? Maybe in addition to speed, he is "poking" rather than following through?

I'm not sure what you're asking with the follow through. Follow through should always be there, stroke through the ball, don't stop at it and don't release just before or just after contact. I don't see how it should be different if you are drawing a shot or hitting center ball if the speed of the stroke is the same, consistent in other words. I think you're spot on with the poking. Check his stroke for smoothness.

 

[CaptainJR]

I use a short closed bridge (about 5 or 6 inches) and had him do the same. His bridge was a little further back (maybe 9 inches) than mine.

He was not hitting the 1 ball in the correct place at first, but he now does that.

FYI - I also had trouble teaching him jump shots. I think the speed of the hit was not there. I finially told him to make the "loudest" bang possible, then that got his ball jumping.

Does follow through matter on a force follow like on a draw shot? Maybe in addition to speed, he is "poking" rather than following through?

And how about level cue or possibly a little upwards pointing?

(I think I use a level cue, fast hit, and follow through, but not sure. Maybe I will video tape myself and see exactly what I am doing and exactly what the cue ball is doing...)

9 inches is definitely to far away from the tip.

cue stick is more level than elevated.

At this stage in his learning he was not even close to being ready to learn a jump shot.

You need to use an easier shot. Straight in shot. Object ball 2' from pocket, cue ball 2' from object ball. Make the cue ball follow the object ball. Once you can see the force follow on this shot. Then might move on to more difficult shots.

 

[Billy_Bob]

...At this stage in his learning he was not even close to being ready to learn a jump shot...

Agreed! But this guy is an interesting fellow. Will not practice any, but is quite a good shot. Very good at leaving me without a shot too.

When he asks, I tell him about my practice, but he is not interested in drills or learning basic skills. I just show him a few shots now and then when he asks. He only wants to play usually.

I think he is changing his mind about practice and drills though. He said his 9 year old kid (playing pool 2 years) could whip my neighbors 6 year old kid (practicing various drills for 2 months) with a quickness. Well the 6 year old won. I showed his kid the drills to practice. I think he is beginning to get a little interest himself.

 

[Zagiflyer]

Force follow

Hello:

I don't know if this will help but I played the game for years and was never good with follow. I hit the ball above center and had a good stroke but I could never get the powerful follow I saw the good players use and as a consequence I used draw almost exclusively for position. I finally took some lessons from a great player and he noticed my "follow difficulties" right away. He had me swing up through the cue ball while hitting it high and even had me "try to miscue." The results were instant and dramatic. He had me pracice full table-length follow shots and try to follow the object ball into the pocket with the cue ball. With a good follow through and a stroke angled up through the cue ball the cue ball takes off like a rocket. This has changed my game and opened up a lot of new positional options for me that I lacked before. I also like straight pool and this is good for plowing through stacks of balls and clusters without getting stuck. My instructor mentioned something to me that makes sense: a lot of instructional books tell you to only go one tip away from the ball center for draw and follow. This isn't enough and the pros who write these books use a lot more, just watch them. If you want powerful draw and follow you need to get near the edges of the ball.....be sure to chalk up well and hit the ball in the middle unless you are trying to use english.

 

[Rickw]

Get a choke chain. Works great! Just kidding. Can he follow the ball well without force?

Level cue that is elevated so that you're hitting well above center. Snap the stroke with the elbow only. Look to see if anything but his arm is moving. Good luck!