How to bring pool out of the slums...

W

wannaplaySOME?

stack it up!
Silver Member
Recently, I found myself in a situation where I could purchase a pool hall... and by purchase I mean merely take over the rent with everything already established... and not have to actually buy the business.. after careful thought and research, i came to the conclusion that pool is just not going to come back to what it used to be... so my question to your az'bers is...

I have been an avid reader of this forum for a very long time and have seen various posts about dumping, inappropriate behavior, ettiquette... gambling... and its not a wonder that this sport has such a bad reputation

What would it take to bring the sport out of the slums???... and thereby make me comfortable to take on the responsibility of owning a room... what needs to happen??

Many people have talked about things to do this ranging from the IPT to enforcing more proper dress codes... but what does it all boil down to? and what are the odds that this sport will one day flourish (again?)???

Some feedback would be greatly appreciated.. the offer on the room still stands and everyday I struggle with the thought of buying it... all things aside, I would still be able to maintain my full time job, as it allows for me to work from home... and I would also have a partner in this venture... any advice would be well receieved and I promise to give out those "reputation" points for anyone who can offer some constructive assessments on this situation.
 
boxing's pretty popular

wannaplaySOME? said:
I have been an avid reader of this forum for a very long time and have seen various posts about dumping, inappropriate behavior, ettiquette... gambling... and its not a wonder that this sport has such a bad reputation

What would it take to bring the sport out of the slums???... and thereby make me comfortable to take on the responsibility of owning a room... what needs to happen??

Many people have talked about things to do this ranging from the IPT to enforcing more proper dress codes... but what does it all boil down to? and what are the odds that this sport will one day flourish (again?)???

Some feedback would be greatly appreciated.. the offer on the room still stands and everyday I struggle with the thought of buying it... all things aside, I would still be able to maintain my full time job, as it allows for me to work from home... and I would also have a partner in this venture... any advice would be well receieved and I promise to give out those "reputation" points for anyone who can offer some constructive assessments on this situation.
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wannaplaySOME? said:
Recently, I found myself in a situation where I could purchase a pool hall... and by purchase I mean merely take over the rent with everything already established... and not have to actually buy the business.. after careful thought and research, i came to the conclusion that pool is just not going to come back to what it used to be... so my question to your az'bers is...

I have been an avid reader of this forum for a very long time and have seen various posts about dumping, inappropriate behavior, ettiquette... gambling... and its not a wonder that this sport has such a bad reputation

What would it take to bring the sport out of the slums???... and thereby make me comfortable to take on the responsibility of owning a room... what needs to happen??

Many people have talked about things to do this ranging from the IPT to enforcing more proper dress codes... but what does it all boil down to? and what are the odds that this sport will one day flourish (again?)???

Some feedback would be greatly appreciated.. the offer on the room still stands and everyday I struggle with the thought of buying it... all things aside, I would still be able to maintain my full time job, as it allows for me to work from home... and I would also have a partner in this venture... any advice would be well receieved and I promise to give out those "reputation" points for anyone who can offer some constructive assessments on this situation.
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Let me add a few ideas to this subject. These are just some ideas I jotted down, because I too thought of opening a Pool Hall.

Atmosphere is everything. Establish good lighting, not brite, but not dim. Let the Pool Table lights be beckoning to your customers. Keep the carpet & furniture clean, have spotless bathrooms. Use Faberge to cover or remove strong odors. Put up nice posters that say your place is "the place".

Watch your patrons, the one's with no concern for their environment are a detriment. Keep the music to an enjoyable level, allow for easy conversation. Put a stall on the drunks & deal with the DRUGGIES severely.

Stir up the "cheap action". All of your patrons, incuding the sweaters, like action. Never allow a game that is "out of Balance". You are the manager of the place & by managing the Pool Room, you manage your future. Anyone can lose $50 -$100..., but if some HUSTLER is swindling one of your customers out of several hundred bucks, you may be the real loser. Most GOOD players don't drink & their MARKS are paying the Pool TIME, so you are, in effect, supplying the venue for some Huckster to clean your patron's pockets.

Keep the tables clean & playable. If everyone is charging $0.75 a game on Bar Boxes, you charge $0.50.

Get some leagues going, help the TEAM captains build some good teams, that are competively compatible. This will get some money coming your way & make you some friends & loyal patrons. Get involved with the action, by offering to be a substitute on every team.

Encourage your patrons to observe a dress code, people like going to a place where they can be somebody. I live in a country town where no one cares how you dress... it is a pig sty.
 
Pool is what it is....It has blue collar roots and it is hard to change that stigma, somehow a bigger vice Cards is now socially acceptable...But pool can't change it's image...Its not a game of the wealthy and in fact the wealthy look down upon the game....You can run a clean business and a nice room but how to clean up the sport will never happen....It is'nt worth trying


Does the business make money should be your # 1 concern...A secodary income is nice...


Smoking Bans have hurt pool in the Northeast, poker has taken a bite out of pool as well..the one thing that might make pool come back is another Great Movie..Just like the Color of Money did in the mid 80s
 
Thoughts ...

Never. Why? Because of Money. The money games and characters provide the action people like to see and talk about. If you eliminate that, you won't have the continued interest by a lot of players and spectators. Tournaments are nice to watch, but the most interest is generated when the pressure is on and big money is involved.

Slums? I don't know if I would use that word, but yes, along with the 'action', it draws many unscroupulous people to it trying to play an angle or get away with something. I think you have to have controls in place to maintain a nice environment, and take care of trouble right away, but you have to let the action continue. How many people like to watch a league match as opposed to a $300 set for money?
Pool environments are similiar to a casino, just on a smaller basis. You never are going to be able to prevent people from having vices, nor should you, but you can control how it is done to a certain extent.
 
wannaplaySOME? said:
Recently, I found myself in a situation where I could purchase a pool hall... and by purchase I mean merely take over the rent with everything already established... and not have to actually buy the business.. after careful thought and research, i came to the conclusion that pool is just not going to come back to what it used to be... so my question to your az'bers is...

I have been an avid reader of this forum for a very long time and have seen various posts about dumping, inappropriate behavior, ettiquette... gambling... and its not a wonder that this sport has such a bad reputation

What would it take to bring the sport out of the slums???... and thereby make me comfortable to take on the responsibility of owning a room... what needs to happen??

Many people have talked about things to do this ranging from the IPT to enforcing more proper dress codes... but what does it all boil down to? and what are the odds that this sport will one day flourish (again?)???

Some feedback would be greatly appreciated.. the offer on the room still stands and everyday I struggle with the thought of buying it... all things aside, I would still be able to maintain my full time job, as it allows for me to work from home... and I would also have a partner in this venture... any advice would be well receieved and I promise to give out those "reputation" points for anyone who can offer some constructive assessments on this situation.
Click to expand...

Good question.

Good question. First, I don't think the IPT is going to have the desired effect on pool as a whole. I'm not saying it will have a negative effect; I just don't see the IPT ever being big like the PGA or the NFL.

I think if pool is to become significantly more popular, it is youth that need to be attracted, and not just $$$. Kids that like to play pool grow up to be adults that like top play pool.

I think pool's best chance for widespread popularity is if schools adopt pool. While it could be played as an extracurricular activity, I think it would be even better if pool were adopted in the classroom.

There is a substantial amount of Physics that could be taught on a pool table, from very basic stuff in elementary school, to most of a University Physics I (Calculus based kinematic physics) course. Also, Math (through Differential Equations) and Geometry are also inherent to the game.

Using pool in the classroom would also make Physics labs much more interesting for the students. The more interested students are, the more information they are likely to retain.

Billiards equipment could be a cost effective alternative to some more expensive lab equipment. Some companies might even be willing to donate or discount heavily equipment when they realize the potential long term benefits of getting kids hooked on pool.

Kids are much more likely to play games than are adults. It stands to reason, if we want to make a game popular, we should start with kids instead of adults.
 
Good post.

Chris said:
Good question. First, I don't think the IPT is going to have the desired effect on pool as a whole. I'm not saying it will have a negative effect; I just don't see the IPT ever being big like the PGA or the NFL.
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The IPT has its merits. Poo-Pooing somebody, with money to burn on propping up our game, is not my way. The IPT has my interest & respect, until I see motives which are 180 degrees from what I hope to see. If real tournaments spring up, there will be interest from others with advertising monies. If people would boycott Bud for a month, Budweiser would open it's eyes. The beer, pop & candy companies have been on a free ride for 50 years I know of.

If the IPT can establish itself as a genuine Pool Tour, then things will change more rapid that we've seen in the past. However, I see it as a costly change to the player & patron. You will have to pay a fee, to watch these champions play in the Pool Rooms around the country. That is fine with me, I've paid many a fee to watch someone sing or Play Golf.

Chris said:
I think if pool is to become significantly more popular, it is youth that need to be attracted, and not just $$$. Kids that like to play pool grow up to be adults that like top play pool.
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Joe Savarin, columnist for the Professor-Q-Ball's magazine, has made some in-roads toward this goal. He would be pleased to visit with you about this program.
 
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Pool in the class room thats a great idea.

I personally know of some schools in the UK where the teacher has an arrangement with a local pool (A nice clean one) and kids go in their during the day for a few hours once a week. They have their own league and coaching that goes on.

This isnt part of the schools educational system just that the teacher loves pool and uses it to help his class.
 
Practically everyone I have ever met worth knowing, I met in a pool room; princes to paupers, knitwits to geniuses. I like characters. No place has characters like a well established pool room.

The reason pool doesn't do so well is because most towns have stupid ordinances that bar children from attending. With very few future players coming in and learning young, the game is destined to be that way it is. The irony is that kids love to play pool.
 
CeeBee,

I wasn't trying to badmouth the IPT. I am not hoping it fails; I simply do not anticipate it being a huge success. If it is successful, and I'm wrong, that's great. It won't hurt my feelings any for the IPT to be successful.

Chris
 
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wannaplaySOME? said:
Recently, I found myself in a situation where I could purchase a pool hall... and by purchase I mean merely take over the rent with everything already established... and not have to actually buy the business.. after careful thought and research, i came to the conclusion that pool is just not going to come back to what it used to be... so my question to your az'bers is...

I have been an avid reader of this forum for a very long time and have seen various posts about dumping, inappropriate behavior, ettiquette... gambling... and its not a wonder that this sport has such a bad reputation

What would it take to bring the sport out of the slums???... and thereby make me comfortable to take on the responsibility of owning a room... what needs to happen??

Many people have talked about things to do this ranging from the IPT to enforcing more proper dress codes... but what does it all boil down to? and what are the odds that this sport will one day flourish (again?)???

Some feedback would be greatly appreciated.. the offer on the room still stands and everyday I struggle with the thought of buying it... all things aside, I would still be able to maintain my full time job, as it allows for me to work from home... and I would also have a partner in this venture... any advice would be well receieved and I promise to give out those "reputation" points for anyone who can offer some constructive assessments on this situation.
Click to expand...

Out of couriosity, where are you in NJ/PA?
 
wannaplaySOME? said:
Recently, I found myself in a situation where I could purchase a pool hall... and by purchase I mean merely take over the rent with everything already established... and not have to actually buy the business.. after careful thought and research, i came to the conclusion that pool is just not going to come back to what it used to be... so my question to your az'bers is...

I have been an avid reader of this forum for a very long time and have seen various posts about dumping, inappropriate behavior, ettiquette... gambling... and its not a wonder that this sport has such a bad reputation

What would it take to bring the sport out of the slums???... and thereby make me comfortable to take on the responsibility of owning a room... what needs to happen??

Many people have talked about things to do this ranging from the IPT to enforcing more proper dress codes... but what does it all boil down to? and what are the odds that this sport will one day flourish (again?)???

Some feedback would be greatly appreciated.. the offer on the room still stands and everyday I struggle with the thought of buying it... all things aside, I would still be able to maintain my full time job, as it allows for me to work from home... and I would also have a partner in this venture... any advice would be well receieved and I promise to give out those "reputation" points for anyone who can offer some constructive assessments on this situation.
Click to expand...

There is so much to write I will leave that to others but I would avoid any kind of partnership if you can help it, more often then not it's bad news. Also the place will be as nice or as bad as you care to run it. You just have to be the bad guy sometimes and not everybody's friend. Run the place as you want and you should be fine. If the numbers work you should give it serious thought if it is what you think you want to do. Me, I wouldn't own another pool room if you gave it to me for free, I hate owning a pool rooms or bars, I have had both, buts that's me.
 
I agree with involving kids. Ban alcohol and smoking in pool rooms so they become kid friendly.
 
Read and understand my signature text...that's the beginning. No matter where you are or what's your business...respect the people you are serving. You don't have to agree their ideas or their points of view but you must show some respect to be respected...and on that moment when you respect persons no matter who they are then you are respcted.

And when we're talking about pool, you just have to show that your place is the place to be in that area...and again we're back in respect.....




(i don't wan't you to understand, but at least listen)
 
Gentle nudges....

wannaplaySOME? said:
I have been an avid reader of this forum for a very long time and have seen various posts about dumping, inappropriate behavior, ettiquette... gambling... and its not a wonder that this sport has such a bad reputation

What would it take to bring the sport out of the slums???... and thereby make me comfortable to take on the responsibility of owning a room... what needs to happen??
Click to expand...
I think in order to gently nudge pool out of the slums you just need to encourage the TYPE of clients you want. First you must offer the enviroment of that client. If you want upper middle class, educated players, make sure the place is clean, reduce the smoke as much as possible, good carpeting, good cloth condition on the tables, etc. Jukebox selection, or music selection has a direct impact. Type of alcohol. Big difference if you offer 32oz cans of malt liquor vs offering bottled Sam Adams beer. The transition to a different client list will be long and take a lot of persistance. After the place LOOKS like the pool room you want it to be, try offering free pool to the people you WANT to start coming in. Free pool passes to some college fraternity or sorority houses at a good college. That type of thing. Coupons or passes to local businesses...hey..at least they will all have jobs and might come back with the family later.

I think you will always have the "wife beater" crowd or the "gangsta" or the "trailer trash" , or the "perpetually jobless" no matter what you do. You can just make it not as fun for the types you want to keep out. Or if they do come in..make it more expensive to make it worth your while. I make a mental note of anyone that acts like an a** and they will NEVER get a Half-Off coupon or a discount on a cue. Other people are friendly, always act like a gentleman, give good constructive criticism vs loud mouth crying and whining. These people get every discount we offer plus freebies of sodas or popcorn or snacks. I would rather have my place filled with 30 people I like vs 50 people I can't stand.

Everyone has good points on this thread..you just have to pick and choose the ones that pertain to you and your business beliefs. Best of luck from another billiard parlor owner. Just my $.02.
 
Gosh, you just have to take over the rent? Awesome! Sit down and make a list of reasons why the previous owner wasn't making any money. Ask someone you respect that also knows the place to help you with the list.

Next, come up with a list of things you could do to improve the place without putting any money into it. If I were you, I'd try to use any profits to make changes that cost money to do.

One of the most important things you could do that doesn't cost anything is keep the place as clean as you can, especially the bathrooms and other areas the customers come in contact with.

Put up a sign, if you don't already have it, stating, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".
 
I just read RickW post lol....

:D We have our own version of his sign saying "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"


Our version:
We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime for any reason. And we do. Often. :rolleyes:
 
Rickw said:
Gosh, you just have to take over the rent? Awesome! Sit down and make a list of reasons why the previous owner wasn't making any money. Ask someone you respect that also knows the place to help you with the list.

Next, come up with a list of things you could do to improve the place without putting any money into it. If I were you, I'd try to use any profits to make changes that cost money to do.

One of the most important things you could do that doesn't cost anything is keep the place as clean as you can, especially the bathrooms and other areas the customers come in contact with.

Put up a sign, if you don't already have it, stating, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".
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There is a lot to consider then just walking in the door. He will need liability insurance and licenses, utilities. Is he going to operate as a corporation or a sole proprietorship. Is he exposing himself or his current personal assets to possable liabilities or lawsuits. He needs a good lawyer to look everything over and give him advice. This could be more a headache then it is worth and will cost a few bucks to walk in, it won't be free.
 
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Rickw said:
Gosh, you just have to take over the rent? Awesome! Sit down and make a list of reasons why the previous owner wasn't making any money. Ask someone you respect that also knows the place to help you with the list.

Next, come up with a list of things you could do to improve the place without putting any money into it. If I were you, I'd try to use any profits to make changes that cost money to do.

One of the most important things you could do that doesn't cost anything is keep the place as clean as you can, especially the bathrooms and other areas the customers come in contact with.

Put up a sign, if you don't already have it, stating, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".
Click to expand...

I'm with Rick. That is the way to get started.

Also, see if you can figure out if there is a good instructor or Really good player in the area. Give them free table time, as much as they want, to give lessons and or bring in business. Since it is table time, it hurts you none to have an empty table getting use. Make a deal with the instructor that you get a small slice of the pie and they get the use of the room. It may not seem like much at first, but a room can really grow if your house pro is well known or your instructor has a following.

I saw a terrible room with Schmidt Tables, a crabby owner, and bad pockets begin to do a good business while the owner was having a famous instructor teaching there for free and allowing one of the best local player to play there for free to. Then about a year later the dumb owner had to run off this instructor ...owners fault all the way... and without that unique draw, everything went to hell. The good player couldn't get a long with the owner after watching him treat the other person like that too. The owner was a crabby old guy who got along with no one. So it was inevitable. However, with an owner like that and equipment like that, he was doing pretty well just by getting one premier instructor and one great local player to come in all the time. This is a heavy word of mouth business. And that is a great way to get folks to come in for the first time, and keep them coming back.
 
Heckler said:
Pool in the class room thats a great idea.

I personally know of some schools in the UK where the teacher has an arrangement with a local pool (A nice clean one) and kids go in their during the day for a few hours once a week. They have their own league and coaching that goes on.

This isnt part of the schools educational system just that the teacher loves pool and uses it to help his class.
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I understand that in Taiwan the schools have classes in billiards/pool for the students. Maybe that is why ---- 16yrs old are winning $75,000.
Jack
www.johnmaddencues.com
 
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