I overheard someone saying that it's illegal to use ivory for cuemaking, and also elephant skin for the wrap, he was saying how elephants are an endangered species, etc. I always figured that we had a surplus of ivory here and that people don't need to send out to places like Africa to get some. I'm just wondering if that guy was talking out of his ass, or is it really illegal to use parts of elephants and certain other animals for cuemaking.
Illegal Materials for Cues?
- Thread starter LastTwo
- Start date
LastTwo said:
I think it's about the local (country) legislation. In certain African contries they will haul your behind to jail if you get caught possessing certain woods. I think using ivory is banned in some contries but don't know any details where, why etc. ? I've also heard that exporting ivory from Japan is prohibited, but could be just a rumor.
I'm not all hippie save the world or anything, but why in this day and age of super plastics and technology do we need to use ANY kind of Ivory?....striated off white plastic looks exactly the same, and it's less expensive. Maybe if Ivory or teeth are left over after some kind of meat processing or something, but even then it's gotta be a pain in the butt to make it into a useable inlay. Why not just get nice sheets of cheap plastic or whatever..?....Gerry
It is not illegal to use Ivory in cues or any other craft for that matter. It is illegal to poach elephants for their tusks, but Ivory can be procured from the natural death of elephants, and its source can be documented for legal purposes. Top cuemakers, even overseas, will have the appropriate documentation should there be a shipping dispute.
mjantti said:
Ivory has been banned from importatation since a treaty was signed by most nations in 1981. Some countries it's illegal to have any ivory. In the United States ivory is legal as long as it is certified to have been aquired in this country before 1981. The price of ivory keeps increasing as the supply dwindles as no more can be imported into the country.
There is no material quite like ivory. Ivory's rarity is what gives it value, what would gold be worth if it was as plentifull as brass?
Dick
Gerry said:
Gerry, I agree wholeheartedly. Although many pool players and cuemakers swear by Ivory ferrules and joints, I think that many of the manmade materials do just as good a job in those applications. Additionally, the manmade materials do not present many of the same problems as Ivory, i.e. tendency to crack. My Birkenstocks and Subaru's aside, I'm not "all hippie" either, but I just cannot justify killing an animal as intelligent and regal as an elephant to produce material that is merely aesthetically pleasing for inlays and carvings. I won't use Ivory in my cues. The reason that there is a black market for Ivory, and the subsequent slaughter of elephants, is simple demand. Once we, as in the world as a whole, come to the realization that we are decimating an entire species for carvings, ferrules and joint material, the demand will stop along with the black market and senseless slaughter. That is not to say that cuemakers are the problem as most ivory used by cuemakers is legal and most likely imported prior to the ban on Ivory sales. But, when that supply is exhausted, I'd sure like to see a world wide ban on the sale, transportation and harvesting of Ivory.
The correct date is 1989. Ivory can still be imported by those who kill elephants legally in Africa, but must have proper CITES paper work and the tusks cannot be sold until the person who took the elephant passes away, so I am told. The paper work is hard to obtain and the price on old estate ivory is getting very high.rhncue said:
rhncue said:
Call me a skeptic, but I find it impossible to believe that there is still plenty of Pre 1981 Ivory just sitting around waiting to be used. Why would we have a 25-30 year supply on hand in 70's? It just doesnt make economic sense to me but maybe there is more to the story. Im listening.
IMHO there must be a whole lot of shenanigans going on to get your brand new Ivory back dated.
bruin70 said:
True enough Bruin!...I have had, and do have cues with a ton of ivory. But from a playability stand point, designing a thermoplastic with the same specific gravity, density, rebound, and any other characteristic is pretty basic in the plastic world. Can you tell my Dad used to own a plastic manufacturing company?
The best part was the machine shop with the 3 axis mill, and all those pretty lathes.....man i used to love making ferrules, joint protectors and junk.BTW for all you cue makers out there, I made a set of Corian ferrules 10 years ago for one of my cues from a countertop sink cutout, and to this day they are still pure white, shiny, and unscratched. I showed them to Mike Sigel a few years back at the Expo, and he loved them. They hit similarly to Ivorine I would say...Gerry
As far as I know, all the ivory imported into the US before 1989 are called pre-banned ivory and they are legal. I am not sure how many of them are there. The fact that ivory are getting more expensive to me suggests to me that the supply is diminishing.Nostroke said:
There are museums in the US selling ivory to cue makers and Dave Warther is one of the most popular ivory supplier to my best knowledge.
I also understand that the native indians are allowed to obtain ivory but they are not allowed to sell them outside of the reserved land or the state in which the ivory was obtained.
There are illegal ivorys from China, Africa, India...etc. I am pretty sure there are illegal ivory being imported into the US.
For a custom cue maker who builds about 100 cues a year, I wonder how long would a tusk last? May be a year?
Richard