Interesting old cue

Thanks for the information. I guess I don't look around in here enough. :)

He has some very amazing cues on there.
 
Thanks for the links Jeff - that Greenleaf still looks a lot like a Hoppe 2-piece. I wonder how they know that isn't a Titlist blank? I've also wondered why some Hoppe decals say "Titlist" and some don't. Actually, I have a lot of questions about the old Brunswicks, but haven't been able to find a web-site that has any detail.

The early Brunswick butterfly 2-piece was especially interesting because I just picked up a 1-piece snooker cue where the butterfly splice ends at almost the same point. It is being cut down and shipped to me now, but I was wondering how it was going to look as a 2-piece.
 
runscott said:
... Actually, I have a lot of questions about the old Brunswicks, but haven't been able to find a web-site that has any detail.

Bump - still looking for old Brunswick resource. Thanks.
 
runscott said:
Bump - still looking for old Brunswick resource. Thanks.

A guy named Brad down in Boca Raton has a slew of Brunswick Catalog Reproductions for sale. Including Brunswick Balke from 1870 (before Collender was bought out), and for 1898, 1900, 1904, 1908, 1914, ... well you get the picture. He has a load of them.

Many of them (if not all) should be added to any collector's resource library (IMO).

http://www.newdeco.com/antiquerepros.htm

-td
 
td873 said:
A guy named Brad down in Boca Raton has a slew of Brunswick Catalog Reproductions for sale. Including Brunswick Balke from 1870 (before Collender was bought out), and for 1898, 1900, 1904, 1908, 1914, ... well you get the picture. He has a load of them.

Many of them (if not all) should be added to any collector's resource library (IMO).

http://www.newdeco.com/antiquerepros.htm

-td
Thanks for the link - I will look into this!
 
runscott said:
Thanks for the links Jeff - that Greenleaf still looks a lot like a Hoppe 2-piece. I wonder how they know that isn't a Titlist blank? I've also wondered why some Hoppe decals say "Titlist" and some don't. Actually, I have a lot of questions about the old Brunswicks, but haven't been able to find a web-site that has any detail.

The early Brunswick butterfly 2-piece was especially interesting because I just picked up a 1-piece snooker cue where the butterfly splice ends at almost the same point. It is being cut down and shipped to me now, but I was wondering how it was going to look as a 2-piece.

The Greenleaf doesnt use a titlist blank.. Check out the difference in veneer colors.

The Titlist is the one pc cue version, (though ppl has chopped them into 2pc cues b4 :) . The Willie Hoppe Professional is the 2 pc cue version from Brunswick, meant for players those days.

Just that tiny bit i know.

Bgrds
RC
 
titlistsucker said:
The Greenleaf doesnt use a titlist blank.. Check out the difference in veneer colors.

The Titlist is the one pc cue version, (though ppl has chopped them into 2pc cues b4 :) . The Willie Hoppe Professional is the 2 pc cue version from Brunswick, meant for players those days.

Just that tiny bit i know.

Bgrds
RC
Thanks RC. I didn't realize the Titlists only came with a certain veneer color scheme - I thought I had seen some with only washed-out browns. Also, I've seen some longer-point Brunswicks described as being made from Titlist blanks, so for those two reasons I thought there was some variety among the Titlist blanks. It's starting to come together.
 
runscott said:
Thanks RC. I didn't realize the Titlists only came with a certain veneer color scheme.
As mentioned, all Titlist cues have 4 veneers, purple, teal, brown, natural (like maple's color). The Hoppe professional was made from a Titlist blank, cut in half, and with a leather wrap. Some have a Hoppe ring, while others don't. You could even order a special rubber bumper with the Professional cue. At one point I knew the pre-cursor to the titlist cue, that had similar veneers, but I can't remember right now (the site below indicates that it was the Carom King).

Also, there is a difference between the titlist blank, and a tilist cue. The cue was sanded down to the final diameter and finished. The blank was a bit oversized and I don't believe they were finished. Here is some info.

The titlist cues that were made prior to 1960 have a decal that says "Brunswick Balke Collender." After 1960 the name was changed to just Brunswick. (If you want to buy one, try to get the "Brunswick Balke Colleder" one's, since they were most likely made during the excellent quality phase). Brunswick used many different forearm woods including ebony and rosewood. I believe that they were introduced in the 1930's+, but my memory may be a bit off there.

Examples of Titlist cues can be seen in many Balabushka and Szamoboti forearms. In fact, many starting cuemakers converted Titlist butts before they learned to make their own blanks.

A great resource is also: The Billiards Encyclopedia . There is a some history of the great titlist blank makers at Brunswick, as well as some excellent information on the master cue makers who used them.

As I understand it, after the 60's the quality of the Titlist cues started to decline, and included many lower quality imports, such as the Schmelke version from the 1970's that had a brass nameplate on it. (I'm not sure what the relationship between the Schmelke and Brunswick actually was back then...)

Nameplate
titlist1.jpg


Notice the titlist-like veneers
titlist3.jpg


The entire product line was discontinued sometime in the 70's or 80's (again my memory is fuzzy). You can still find a Titlist butt, although they are harder to come by, and usually go for around $300.

Hope some of this helps,

-td
 
td873 said:
As mentioned, all Titlist cues have 4 veneers, purple, teal, brown, natural (like maple's color). The Hoppe professional was made from a Titlist blank, cut in half, and with a leather wrap. Some have a Hoppe ring, while others don't. You could even order a special rubber bumper with the Professional cue. At one point I knew the pre-cursor to the titlist cue, that had similar veneers, but I can't remember right now (the site below indicates that it was the Carom King).

Also, there is a difference between the titlist blank, and a tilist cue. The cue was sanded down to the final diameter and finished. The blank was a bit oversized and I don't believe they were finished. Here is some info.

The titlist cues that were made prior to 1960 have a decal that says "Brunswick Balke Collender." After 1960 the name was changed to just Brunswick. (If you want to buy one, try to get the "Brunswick Balke Colleder" one's, since they were most likely made during the excellent quality phase). Brunswick used many different forearm woods including ebony and rosewood. I believe that they were introduced in the 1930's+, but my memory may be a bit off there.

Examples of Titlist cues can be seen in many Balabushka and Szamoboti forearms. In fact, many starting cuemakers converted Titlist butts before they learned to make their own blanks.

A great resource is also: The Billiards Encyclopedia . There is a some history of the great titlist blank makers at Brunswick, as well as some excellent information on the master cue makers who used them.

As I understand it, after the 60's the quality of the Titlist cues started to decline, and included many lower quality imports, such as the Schmelke version from the 1970's that had a brass nameplate on it. (I'm not sure what the relationship between the Schmelke and Brunswick actually was back then...)

Nameplate
titlist1.jpg


Notice the titlist-like veneers
titlist3.jpg


The entire product line was discontinued sometime in the 70's or 80's (again my memory is fuzzy). You can still find a Titlist butt, although they are harder to come by, and usually go for around $300.

Hope some of this helps,

-td

Thanks td, I saw that Brunswick/Schmelke on ebay that you just posted pictures from - I have an identical cue, and also a Hoppe. I can't see any real difference in the point/veneer quality. The colors are brighter on the Hoppe veneers, but the points are longer and maybe a touch nicer on the Brunswick Schmelke. Also, my understanding was that Brunswick made the cues from Titlist blanks, Schmelke added the joints, and the shafts were made in Asia. But others have said the blanks were also made in Asia. So who knows? Anyway, the quality is nice on both, so I'm pleased. Both were meant to be conversion projects, but the Schmelke is too close to playable for me to mess with - even has the original screw-on tip. The Hoppe is still a question-mark, but will probably get an overhaul. Thanks again for your help.
 
I got a question...

Do nearly all titlists have splits at the top of their points? I am not being critical, but even my Schick's points are slightly off. Don't get me wrong, I am not gonna kick it to the curb, but I am just curious as to why the quality is not tip top. Did they just not care back then or did it have to do with mass production?

I am just asking as an ignorant titlist enthusiast, thanks.

Shorty
 
Shorty said:
I got a question...

Do nearly all titlists have splits at the top of their points? I am not being critical, but even my Schick's points are slightly off. Don't get me wrong, I am not gonna kick it to the curb, but I am just curious as to why the quality is not tip top. Did they just not care back then or did it have to do with mass production?

I am just asking as an ignorant titlist enthusiast, thanks.

Shorty
I think it's the nostalgia - so many great cue-makers used Titlist blanks. My avitar is from a Mottey cue with a "Titlist look". I've always liked that classic look, which is why I haven't been able to resist picking up some old Brunswicks. Wait 'til you see my next conversion project!
 
Shorty said:
I got a question...

Do nearly all titlists have splits at the top of their points? I am not being critical, but even my Schick's points are slightly off. Don't get me wrong, I am not gonna kick it to the curb, but I am just curious as to why the quality is not tip top. Did they just not care back then or did it have to do with mass production?

I am just asking as an ignorant titlist enthusiast, thanks.

Shorty

Excellent post tad...

i seen quite a number of titlists or hoppe with very even points, and strangely many of them are from the ebony titlist which seem to get the better work..Perhaps in those days Brunswick only let the masters handle the ebony..

Btw be interesting to list how many hardwoods Brunswick used for the Hoppe.

i only know of these
1. Rosewood
2. Walnut
3. Purpleheart
4. Ebony (Gaboon and Macassar)
5. Mahogany
6. Oak
7. Coco Bolo

Anyone can contribute ? Good to share some knowledge here
 
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