Internation Cue Dealers Assoc. .. dream or reality?

classiccues

classiccues

Morgan set complete...
Silver Member
My partner and I were talking the other day and it seems to me that there are as many cue “brokers” as there are cue makers. It got us to thinking with the ACA and now the cuemasters that maybe there should be an organization for cue dealers. Maybe as a branch of the ACA or cuemasters. What do you think? I am listing some of our thoughts and would like to hear from the general public and other cue dealers and cue makers.

Benefits:
There would be by-laws concerning the conduct of business.
I think it would be more beneficial knowing a broker has conducted himself in a manner that is positive as opposed to being a rip off artist.
We could share pricing with each other as well as give the blue book folks an update once in a while that would reflect the current cue market.
Maybe getting our own section at trade shows… etc…

Membership:
I think it would be broken down into a few categories such as production, custom, used, new, combination of the above as well as internet houses, etc.. There would be junior and senior memberships based on the amount of cues you move and stock. We would definitely have a cuemaker membership area, without them where would we be. IMHO if we had a board, I would have at least 2 maybe 3 cuemakers on that board. We would have a branch or section for international cue dealers.

I have talked to the cue dealers we are friendly with and they think it’s a great idea. I just want to hear from others (cuemakers, dealers, public)I on this. If this gets a lot of positive feedback it is something we could outline and have ready for the Hopkins show in March.

Remember this is just a thought...

Joe / Mark
 
Joe and Mark-
From both a customer and a cue dealer, I think this is a very good idea. I do this part time and for the pure love of the sport! I carry production and custom cues, sell Internationally and keep a small inventory. I have grown alot in the last 6 months, mainly (IMO) because of positive word of mouth. IMO this "Cue Dealer Org" is a great idea. It will give the customers the comfortable feeling knowing that they are buying from a reputable dealer that's honest and wont "screw" them out of money.
I would be interested in joining this Organization.

Cuedos to Joe and Mark, GREAT IDEA!!!
Zim
 
fractured as pool is, anything that resembles organization is a good thing. so THAT fact is a good enough reason.

other than that,,,,,,well,,,,,stroud is no longer on the roster at aca, is he? and gina, schraeger, and tad never were. i don't know what was binding about the aca other than cuemakers were able to advertize their wares under one roof. same with dealers i think. it will be a convenient source for the public to shop.
 
Very, very good idea.
Like to hear more from it once it becomes serious.
Also because there are a lot of "sneaky" dealer in the circuit.

Maurice Houben
Weert
The Netherlands
 
I hope that it is an international one instead of just having international dealers as a sub-category. IMO, the cue organization protectionism just stunted the growth of cue collecting and hopefully this cue brokers org. can change all that. It is common knowledge that the consumers from countries other than the US make up a high percentage of high end cue purchases and thus be accorded the respect that they deserve.
Having a global network will make it easier, for the high end cue consumers, to acquire any cue from their favoured dealer should this dealer have ready access to co-members stocks. My experience with high end cue buyers gave me the impression that these buyers prefer dealing with only one broker due to their confidence in their broker's after sales support.

If this organization has a global network then no member will lose a sale just because of the above reason.

The organization can generate income by acting as the worlwide certifying agency, like the PCGS of coin collecting.

IMHO, if you regionalize this organization, it will be like cutting your nose inspite of your face as an international org. might form and just make you second to it.
 
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I have found that most of the dealers at the tournaments are rip offs. I am not going to mention their names. I have seen them standing next to a cuemaker and selling exactaly what the cuemaker has new at $200 more used. They have some very elaborate web pages but no deals to be had. I would support any thing that would put them in their rightful place. With the rest of the thieves. This may sound harsh, but they buy cheep, ripping off owners who need cash, and sell sky high, ripping off decent cue buyers. I have been told by one that he would sell a particular cue I showed him for $2,200. When asked what he would give me in trade on one of his overpriced cues, he said $500. Man, thats $1,700 profit on one cue. Real pompous AH. Just my personel experience. I like win, win situations. None of this one way crap.
Don P.
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
I have found that most of the dealers at the tournaments are rip offs. I am not going to mention their names. I have seen them standing next to a cuemaker and selling exactaly what the cuemaker has new at $200 more used.
Click to expand...

Don,
Do you know why dealers have to ask more? Alot (most) of the times we aren't buying on the cheap. Sorry, contrary to popular belief we don't buy $ 3,000.00 cues for $100.00. It just doesn't work like that, and I am sorry if you feel that way. If I could buy decently, I would sell accordingly.

[/B][/QUOTE] They have some very elaborate web pages but no deals to be had. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well all I will say is that I, like my contemporaries I have to list "high" to take an offer that is less. Do you know why Don? Because even if I listed it at the price I want to get for it, guys like you (should I use the word thieves?) would still try and talk me down. This is how the game works. You and I both know that. It takes two to tango, and fortunately the deal has to work both ways.

[/B][/QUOTE] This may sound harsh, but they buy cheep, ripping off owners who need cash, and sell sky high, ripping off decent cue buyers. [/B][/QUOTE]

Really? Didn't I say it takes two to tango? If there is a seller and there is a buyer, if an agreement is made then its a mutual transaction, right? As far as resale, are you standing in front of Radio Shack complaining that they buy computers for 150.00 and selling them for 1200? I didn't think so.

[/B][/QUOTE]I have been told by one that he would sell a particular cue I showed him for $2,200. When asked what he would give me in trade on one of his overpriced cues, he said $500. Man, thats $1,700 profit on one cue. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ok, well what about the cuebuyer that scored a cue on the cheap and wants me to give him full retail on a trade? Curious, whats your take on that? So to move a cue I need to lose money, thats really swell of you.

[/B][/QUOTE]Just my personel experience. I like win, win situations. None of this one way crap.
Don P. [/B][/QUOTE]

We all like to win/win. My best deals are when both the buyer and seller are happy. Which is the reason when I know a buyer is looking for something I don't have and I can make a connection for him, one that doesn't net me a dime, I am as happy as if I made a few hundred...

Sorry you are so sour...

Joe
 
bandido said:
I hope that it is an international one instead of just having international dealers as a sub-category. IMO, the cue organization protectionism just stunted the growth of cue collecting and hopefully this cue brokers org. can change all that. It is common knowledge that the consumers from countries other than the US make up a high percentage of high end cue purchases and thus be accorded the respect that they deserve.
Having a global network will make it easier, for the high end cue consumers, to acquire any cue from their favoured dealer should this dealer have ready access to co-members stocks. My experience with high end cue buyers gave me the impression that these buyers prefer dealing with only one broker due to their confidence in their broker's after sales support.

If this organization has a global network then no member will lose a sale just because of the above reason.

The organization can generate income by acting as the worlwide certifying agency, like the PCGS of coin collecting.

IMHO, if you regionalize this organization, it will be like cutting your nose inspite of your face as an international org. might form and just make you second to it.
Click to expand...

Edwin,
I didn't mean it as a sub category per se, but since I peruse all the sites, even the international ones, I notice there is a substantial mark up over seas. For exapmple a South West I would ask 1800.00 for is listed on a site for 3200.00. This would make balancing the price very tough for buyers here, its sort of an unatural inflation. When I list a cue on our site, I don't care if the buyer is from Japan, Holland or Camden, NJ its the same price. I am not going to be the international cue police, I don't have that kind of time, nor do I want to be the source of some major problems. I would be doing this more so that someone who wants to buy from a cue broker, can check his "rating" or something like that, and just to have some positives in this area of the industry.
Recently we have had a few circumstances with other jerkof.. I mean dealers that had very negative effects on the cue business. One in particular is so stupid I don't think he even realized what his pettyness cost him, and me. :)

Joe
 
My man, I didn't say a word aboutyou. I didn't call you a thief. I just expressed my experience and opinion. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it didn't, you wouldn't have attacked me personally. I have found some great deals by being in the right place at the right time. Giving the seller what they asked for. I just sold a $3,200 Phillippi , one of a kind for $1,500. The guy asked me for $1,100. I bought the cue and turned it around in one month. I purchase cues with broken butt plates and repair and refinish them. These turn out to be fantastic deals for people. I am sorry if you don't have any marketable skills. I do this for a hobby. I am sorry you are so offended. I have just as much a right to express my opinions as anybody else does. This is America in case you didn't notice.
Don P.
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
My man, I didn't say a word aboutyou. I didn't call you a thief. I just expressed my experience and opinion. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it didn't, you wouldn't have attacked me personally. I have found some great deals by being in the right place at the right time. Giving the seller what they asked for. I just sold a $3,200 Phillippi , one of a kind for $1,500. The guy asked me for $1,100. I bought the cue and turned it around in one month. I purchase cues with broken butt plates and repair and refinish them. These turn out to be fantastic deals for people. I am sorry if you don't have any marketable skills. I do this for a hobby. I am sorry you are so offended. I have just as much a right to express my opinions as anybody else does. This is America in case you didn't notice.
Don P.
Click to expand...

Don and I didn't call you a thief either. Attacked you? I asked for some opinions and gave mine to you as you did to me. Notice the difference in posting styles, I answered and commented on all your "points" and you of course had nothing to say otherwise. Luckily for me I don't need to be a thief and long ago I realized that I can't make everyone happy. Not knocking Phillipis work but you got what the cue was worth, see I would give you a little cue dealing lesson but its obviously a moot point.

See Don, I like to talk cues and I love even more to educate the misguided...

Joe.. (---not offendable, and will express his opinion when need be
 
Guys like you, "(or should I use the word thieve's)" That my friend is a quote! Go back and read it. I don't try and talk people down in their fair prices either. I am sorry you don't appriciate Rick and Richards work. That wasn't very nice either. You sure sounded offended to me. I never said a word about you or your business practices. Good luck with your exclusive club, I hope you are successful. Joe, don't need any lessons. Buying, selling, trading, collecting, and repairing cues is a passion of mine, so is being fair and treating people with dignity and respect.
Best Regards, Don P.
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
Guys like you, "(or should I use the word thieve's)" That my friend is a quote! Go back and read it. I don't try and talk people down in their fair prices either. I am sorry you don't appriciate Rick and Richards work. That wasn't very nice either. You sure sounded offended to me. I never said a word about you or your business practices. Good luck with your exclusive club, I hope you are successful. Joe, don't need any lessons. Buying, selling, trading, collecting, and repairing cues is a passion of mine, so is being fair and treating people with dignity and respect.
Best Regards, Don P.
Click to expand...

Oh and here is one to.. "I have found that most of the dealers at the tournaments are rip offs. " Using this sentence, in a thread started by a cuedealer is as close to an attack as you are ever going to see. Especially when you combine it with the other multitude of venom you spilled. If you are going to fling shots, please do so and expect a return volley. But what you should understand is that is the kind of input and its the kind of things we would like to see and hear about and maybe work with the other vendors to stop.
I do appreciate the Phillipis work I also know that a 3200 dollar cue won't get that in todays market. From a current cuemaker, used, and as you said repaired cue (especially one repaired by an unknown) just isn't going to bring that kind of money. My club is not exclusive. I am glad you find cue work a passion, I find cue dealing the same.

Joe
 
Joe, I didn't say I repaired the Phillipi. I just got a deal on it and gave a deal on it. The $3,200 number came from Rick when the guy I sold it to showed it to him. Rick made the cue for Kevin West, one of his best friends.
I have probably met you at a couple of the shows and admire the work that you do. Someone else in this thread mentioned the rip offs out there. I am not the only one who notices these "dealers". The word most does not imply "all", and certainly was not aimed at you. I hope an orginization like the one you wish to start will seperate the bad apples from the good ones. I believe if a guy has a good product at a reasonable price, there is no haggeling, or talking down. I suggested to Mike that if he was going to have an AZ auction page, list the cues at what the seller's minimum price would be. This would eliminate all the BS. Let the buyers take over from there.
I wish you and yours the best this holiday season and hope to see you at the BCA trade show in April. After all my friend, we do share a passion for functional art and the creators.
Best Regards, Don Purdy
 
I wish all the best to whoever is going ahead with this new association. It's a hell of a lot of work. Been there done that, twice now. Hell of a lot of work.

In the end, not many will appreciate it. They will use it, but never say it's great, when it is great.
good luck to all
blud
 
classiccues said:
Edwin,
I didn't mean it as a sub category per se, but since I peruse all the sites, even the international ones, I notice there is a substantial mark up over seas. For exapmple a South West I would ask 1800.00 for is listed on a site for 3200.00. This would make balancing the price very tough for buyers here, its sort of an unatural inflation. When I list a cue on our site, I don't care if the buyer is from Japan, Holland or Camden, NJ its the same price. I am not going to be the international cue police, I don't have that kind of time, nor do I want to be the source of some major problems. I would be doing this more so that someone who wants to buy from a cue broker, can check his "rating" or something like that, and just to have some positives in this area of the industry.
Recently we have had a few circumstances with other jerkof.. I mean dealers that had very negative effects on the cue business. One in particular is so stupid I don't think he even realized what his pettyness cost him, and me. :)

Joe
Click to expand...

I understand loud and clear. Mine was just a well meaning concern from a diiferent angle. I'm really wishing you well and lots of luck. Don't hesitate to holler if you need me to help.
Ed
 
To Classiccues:

A couple of times in this thread, you mentioned 'today's market'.

I'm curious about a couple of things. How close are the Blue Book prices to what one can reasonably expect to buy or sell collectibles for? For instance, I have a very rare (initials, original condition, xtra shafts, Fellini case, shipping container, business card, one owner) Gus Szamboti. I retired this cue a couple of years ago after using it for 17 years. (I got it from Gus in 1986).

The Blue Book says the value of this cue is around $17,500. What does 'today's market' say?

AndyG
 
AndyG said:
To Classiccues:

A couple of times in this thread, you mentioned 'today's market'.

I'm curious about a couple of things. How close are the Blue Book prices to what one can reasonably expect to buy or sell collectibles for? For instance, I have a very rare (initials, original condition, xtra shafts, Fellini case, shipping container, business card, one owner) Gus Szamboti. I retired this cue a couple of years ago after using it for 17 years. (I got it from Gus in 1986).

The Blue Book says the value of this cue is around $17,500. What does 'today's market' say?

AndyG
Click to expand...

Andy,
It depends on how well one interprets the pricing and grading system of the blue book. If I had a dollar for every $ 2500 dollar Palmer showed to me I would retire. Before I could comment on your Szamboti you would need to send me pics. Alot of factors go into pricing a Szamboti, inlays, veneers, etc.. But for the record, Szamboti's are pretty safe in the fact they have not really taken a hit in todays market. With about 1200-1400 or so cues made, they are just to hard to find. Hopefully the new bluebook will help with better (more accurate) pricing.
One can just check on ebay to see how many $ 2,000 dollar cues are going for 1200 or less and get a feel for what cues are "hot" and what are not. I don't know if I would contribute this to the economy or the fact there is just to much wood floating around.

Joe
 
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