Is this a Baker or a Martin?

[Benelli]

Gentlemen

I recently acquired a cue that was thought to be a Harold "Red" Baker cue but when I got it home and really started looking at it I saw a lot of Harvey Martin influence right down to the little pencil indexing marks Martin would put on his shafts and joints.

I know these two men were contemporaries and I figured that Red may have even learned from Martin but I also know Martin made a lot of Red's competition cues.

I also know from research that Martin did not make cues with points or inlays because he felt it weakened the cue but did make some pointed cues from Brunswick blanks.

I guess my question is this, is this a Red Baker cue, or is this a Harvey Martin cue that Martin made on spec for Red?

It's also been suggested that this could be an early Schrager or Kohara but I've only ever seen ornate examples of their cues and would have no clue if this could be an example of either makers work.

 

[Michael Webb]

Gentlemen

I recently acquired a cue that was thought to be a Harold "Red" Baker cue but when I got it home and really started looking at it I saw a lot of Harvey Martin influence right down to the little pencil indexing marks Martin would put on his shafts and joints.

I know these two men were contemporaries and I figured that Red may have even learned from Martin but I also know Martin made a lot of Red's competition cues.

I also know from research that Martin did not make cues with points or inlays because he felt it weakened the cue but did make some pointed cues from Brunswick blanks.

I guess my question is this, is this a Red Baker cue, or is this a Harvey Martin cue that Martin made on spec for Red?

It's also been suggested that this could be an early Schrager or Kohara but I've only ever seen ornate examples of their cues and would have no clue if this could be an example of either makers work.

I couldn't find that Cue, but I found this on Red.
Good read.

Harvey Martin's Red Baker Cue

Hi, A collector friend of mine visited our shop last week and had some great stuff all from an historical perspective. Here is a pic of the Red Baker cue that was used many times over the years as a movie and telvison prop in Hollywood. Pretty Cool Indeed. Rick Here is Stupendous and Jay...

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[Michael Webb]

Do you know what thread the Joint Screw is.

 

[Benelli]

I don't, it doesn't match anything in my collection

 

[Michael Webb]

I don't, it doesn't match anything in my collection

Martin was known for 3/8x8 brass and 3/8x10.
Tad 3/8x12
Put a ruler against the joint screw and count the threads at 1 inch long.

 

[Benelli]

I tried a McDermott joint.protector which should have been a 3/8x10 but it did not fit. I guess I can try to find a 3/8x12 and see how.that goes

 

[Michael Webb]

I tried a McDermott joint.protector which should have been a 3/8x10 but it did not fit. I guess I can try to find a 3/8x12 and see how.that goes

If you were local. I could help you more as I have quite the inventory on joint screws.
Good luck and
Happy Easter

 

[cueman]

The shafts look like Martin Shafts. The butt does not look like any Martin cues I have seen. I think if Harvey built it that brown ring at the bottom would have his name in it.

 

[Jimmy_Betmore]

Anything under the bumper?

 

[Benelli]

Anything under the bumper?

Just the butt cap.

It looks like they milled out the Derlin perfectly to fit the bumper.

 

[Benelli]

So this morning I have had conversations with Kent Taylor at Taylor Custom Cues and Fred Kohara at TAD Custom Cues. And let me say how deeply appreciative I am of both these fine builders giving so graciously of their time to humor me in the research I'm doing on my cue!

The consensus is the cue is not a Martin but it definitely has Martin elements and the shafts may be Martin.

Mr. Taylor thought the cue might be a TAD or possibly a very early Schrager and Fred thought it might be one of his father's early cues but did not think it was one of Bert's early cues.

I'm going to be in Torrance in a couple of weeks so I'm going to run the cue over to Fred's shop so he can see it in person.

Damn, I love pool cue mysteries and it is by far what makes this the coolest hobby around!!!