Jacoby, Schon, or other (Custom) Cue?

ViolatorDM

ViolatorDM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey everyone,

I was wondering what your opinion is regarding Jacoby and Schon Cues (especially the old Bob Runde era Cues)?

I'm trying to figure out what kind of Cue I should go for... Should I go for a Custom Jacoby (I've already contacted them and gave them a draft) Cue? Should I go for a used Bob Runde era Schon (those sweet R series Cues)? Should I go for a Used or New current line Schon? Or should I go for a different Custom Cue (I'm not saying that Schon Cues are Custom Cues as I'm puzzled! Some of you say they are, some of you say they aren't. And I want to keep everyone happy :grin:)?

My budget is around $1000USD (without the Shaft) and what I'm looking for is (for a Cue that):
* (most importantly) plays excellent
* Will hit like a fully loaded freight train hits a brick wall
* Is made of AAA++++ grade wood and materials
* Is well built
* Is full splice (with sharp/sharp/sharp/sharp edges)
* Is cored
* Has the weight balance to the front
* Does not weigh over 19oz
* Has a 5/16 - 14 SS joint
* All points are symmetric
* Looks like a Balabushka Cue (but not a fancy one; say a Adam Balabushka GB-1 or Adam Balabushka GB-6, you get the picture)
* Will last for a very, very, very, very long time, will still play excellent and will not fall apart
* The Cuemaker will support and stand by the product

Please don't laugh at me, help me understand the differences and guide me if you can!




Dimitris
 
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I purchased a J Pechauer pro series cue (JP-08) and I absolutely love it. Under $500, lifetime warranty for defects including warpage. If you have more $ to spend than I myself had, you can order from them directly and customize the cue the way you want it... From what I gather here they don't hold their resale value as much as say a Schon, but if you are looking for a solid playing cue that is well built, I feel the Pechauer is a good choice.. I got several compliments on my cue at the pool hall. It is very sharp looking.. Look them up and check out their Site.. They choose their own shaft wood and make every part of their cues in house right here in the good old U. S. A
 
JoeyC71176 said:
I purchased a J Pechauer pro series cue (JP-08) and I absolutely love it. Under $500, lifetime warranty for defects including warpage. If you have more $ to spend than I myself had, you can order from them directly and customize the cue the way you want it... From what I gather here they don't hold their resale value as much as say a Schon, but if you are looking for a solid playing cue that is well built, I feel the Pechauer is a good choice.. I got several compliments on my cue at the pool hall. It is very sharp looking.. Look them up and check out their Site.. They choose their own shaft wood and make every part of their cues in house right here in the good old U. S. A
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I've shot with a J. Pechauer in the past and I can't say that I liked it a lot. It didn't seem to provide a lot of feedback, the hit was a bit too soft for me and the weight balance was to the rear. I only practiced like 10 - 20 shots or so with the Cue so I couldn't say that it was enough to reach a conclusion though. Plus, I have no idea what the tip was, as to whether or not the guy had modified the Cue (removed or added weight), what was the condition of the shaft and so on.

But I didn't really like it a lot :-(
 
From your description it sounds like you would like the Runde area Schon.
You don't know how a custom cue is going to play for you until it's built. By then it's too late, you own it. So a custom cue could look like you want but not play like you want. If you find an older Runde you can play with it and see if you like it, and it will hold it's value better than a new cue for resale. I have a Jacoby and it's the best playing cue I have had, I got to play with it though, that's the key.
 
ViolatorDM said:
I've shot with a J. Pechauer in the past and I can't say that I liked it a lot. It didn't seem to provide a lot of feedback, the hit was a bit too soft for me and the weight balance was to the rear. I only practiced like 10 - 20 shots or so with the Cue so I couldn't say that it was enough to reach a conclusion though. Plus, I have no idea what the tip was, as to whether or not the guy had modified the Cue (removed or added weight), what was the condition of the shaft and so on.

But I didn't really like it a lot :-(
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I agree with you on Pechauer 100%, some people seem to like them but I haven't played with one that hits like a Schon.
The people at Jacoby are cool to deal with and their new Hybrid shafts are supposed to be very good, but I prefer the way my Schon cues play better than the Jacoby cues I have or have had.
If you can find a Runde Schon even better, but all of my Schon's play about the same depending on which shaft I use.
I own a few new Runde cues, and they are available at reasonable prices, not that much more than a Schon.

Lots of options in the cue world these days
 
YubaCushion said:
From your description it sounds like you would like the Runde area Schon.
You don't know how a custom cue is going to play for you until it's built. By then it's too late, you own it. So a custom cue could look like you want but not play like you want. If you find an older Runde you can play with it and see if you like it, and it will hold it's value better than a new cue for resale. I have a Jacoby and it's the best playing cue I have had, I got to play with it though, that's the key.
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I've never had the privilege of playing with a Runde era Schon :-(

I've played with a Schon Cue in 1996 for a couple of months (belonged to a friend of mine) but it didn't look like a Runde era Schon to me (points were not sharp but rounded to the edges, the shaft was not a Schon but a Adam Balabushka and the weight even though the guy said it was 19oz, I'm sure it felt like 20oz or even more). However, the Cue felt very good and the hit was exactly what I was looking/expecting from a Cue like that.

Anyways, Runde era Schon Cues are not common at all in Greece.

I totally understand what you say about Custom Cues and I agree with you 100% on this! This is what's driving me crazy...!!!

On one hand, there is Schon, especially Runde era Schon, which sounds to me like it will be exactly what I'm looking, I might be able to sell it at a reasonable price and not loose money if I don't like it and decide to sell it and so on and so on.

On the other hand, there are a gazillion (OK, a lot :grin:) of Custom Cuemakers, that I've never played with their Cues (except for a few but those were not really Custom but Cues that were produced in a specific quantity, with a specific design and that's it) and I have no idea how they play. If I order one, I own it. If I don't like it and want to sell it, market value might not be that great so I might loose (a lot of) money.

Since you own a Jacoby Custom Cue, can you please describe how it "feels", how it "plays"?
 
As I was told once, A Runde cue (not a runde era) will play softer than a Schon.
So if the normal Schon is too stiff then that might be a good option.
I would say the best bang for you buck is to look for a Runde era Schon.
$1k for a new Runde will maybe get you a little more than a sneaky pete.
Just not worth it to me.
However for a Runde era Schon you can get something nicer.
Personally, I don't find any difference in feel between the Runde era Schon and new one.
If you must have sharp points then you got to go with with a Runde or get a custom build.

Good luck
 
cuesblues said:
I agree with you on Pechauer 100%, some people seem to like them but I haven't played with one that hits like a Schon.
The people at Jacoby are cool to deal with and their new Hybrid shafts are supposed to be very good, but I prefer the way my Schon cues play better than the Jacoby cues I have or have had.
If you can find a Runde Schon even better, but all of my Schon's play about the same depending on which shaft I use.
I own a few new Runde cues, and they are available at reasonable prices, not that much more than a Schon.

Lots of options in the cue world these days
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Can you please give more information, especially regarding the bit about the Shafts?

I don't remember where I read this, but I read that Runde era Schon Shafts can be used on post-Runde era Schon Cues (if the pin is of the same type of course) but post-Runde era Schon Shafts cannot be used with Runde era Schon Cues. Is this true?

Also, how can you compare the "hit", "play" and overall "feel" between the Schon Cues you've played with and the Jacoby Cues you've played with (which you owned)? Have you ever tried using a Schon Shaft on your Jacoby Custom Cue?
 
twal said:
As I was told once, A Runde cue (not a runde era) will play softer than a Schon.
So if the normal Schon is too stiff then that might be a good option.
I would say the best bang for you buck is to look for a Runde era Schon.
$1k for a new Runde will maybe get you a little more than a sneaky pete.
Just not worth it to me.
However for a Runde era Schon you can get something nicer.
Personally, I don't find any difference in feel between the Runde era Schon and new one.
If you must have sharp points then you got to go with with a Runde or get a custom build.

Good luck
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Is there really any difference between sharp points and rounded points? I mean, I remember I've read a few things about this, that sharp points will eventually "cause" the Cue to behave consistently over time (just like wine or cognac, but then again, someday both will become vinegar), if the Cuemaker did a good job while constructing the Cue and blending the different pieces of wood/points together, where some others say that it doesn't make a difference and that no one, ever, could actually prove this.

So if the hit between Runde era Schon Cues is the same as the post-Runde era Schon Cues, what's the whole fuss with it? Is it something that "we" have created or is there something there after all?

I really hope I'm making sense :D :D :D

This whole thing is driving me nuts!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Heeeeeeeelp!
 
As for the Jacoby I wrote a review in this forum called Jacoby review. That is just my personal review. I will say that the cues that I grew up with at the time were Hueblers old Schons, szamboti's really old Brunswicks. The round points on Schon and other manufactures are from a end mill on a CNC machine. And some Runde Schons have these also. When trying a cue, try the one you want to buy if you can. Paul Dayton told me once that he could make two cues from the same piece of wood and they would each be a little different. People knock production cues, but there are a lot that play just as good as cues costing twice as much or more. I'm not saying that just because I can't afford them either. cause I could. And I have one coming.
 
ViolatorDM said:
Is there really any difference between sharp points and rounded points? I mean, I remember I've read a few things about this, that sharp points will eventually "cause" the Cue to behave consistently over time....?
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The only difference is what you see. One is rounded and one is sharp. I don't believe a shap pointed cue play any better then a rounded CNC cue. Sometimes you got to use your own head and figiure out what makes good sense. Becareful on what you believe.

So if the hit between Runde era Schon Cues is the same as the post-Runde era Schon Cues, what's the whole fuss with it? Is it something that "we" have created or is there something there after all?
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Like I said, they feel pretty much the same to me. Some swear by the Runde era. I think a lot of the mystique with these cues is that they are no longer being produced. Kind of like the theory that we always want what we can't have :)

I think you might be making this harder than what it is. I would suggest you find a Schon or Runde cues and buy one that looks nice to you (sharp pointed or not).

I would recommned you stay away from getting a custom build. You are almost always better off getting a used cue vs a new. Just make sure you are not overpaying for a used cue with no warrenty. If you go new, get it from one the forum sponsors and make sure you read the retrun policy. Usually you have 90 days to return it.
 
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ViolatorDM said:
Can you please give more information, especially regarding the bit about the Shafts?

I don't remember where I read this, but I read that Runde era Schon Shafts can be used on post-Runde era Schon Cues (if the pin is of the same type of course) but post-Runde era Schon Shafts cannot be used with Runde era Schon Cues. Is this true?

Also, how can you compare the "hit", "play" and overall "feel" between the Schon Cues you've played with and the Jacoby Cues you've played with (which you owned)? Have you ever tried using a Schon Shaft on your Jacoby Custom Cue?
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I don't know about the course pin on Runde Schon cues, I read something one time, maybe they were talking about Acme threads.
Most of my Schons are early 90's (I think) one or two of the shafts do not interchange, but, what is important is the fact that so many people like the dimensions of Schon cues.
The balance is good, the handle is on the thin side, and personally I like the universal-like shaft taper.
Not bad for a commercially available steel jointed production cue.
Very solid hit, and other than the rounded points, the tips that come on new Schon shafts, and some of their gaudy designs, they are terrific steel jointed cues.
 
YubaCushion said:
As for the Jacoby I wrote a review in this forum called Jacoby review. That is just my personal review. I will say that the cues that I grew up with at the time were Hueblers old Schons, szamboti's really old Brunswicks. The round points on Schon and other manufactures are from a end mill on a CNC machine. And some Runde Schons have these also. When trying a cue, try the one you want to buy if you can. Paul Dayton told me once that he could make two cues from the same piece of wood and they would each be a little different. People knock production cues, but there are a lot that play just as good as cues costing twice as much or more. I'm not saying that just because I can't afford them either. cause I could. And I have one coming.
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I read your review today morning, just before I left home to get to the Office. I was excited to read the things you've written, especially the part that says that it weighs 19oz, feels like 18oz, but it hits like 20oz. Such a thing you describe means to me that if might feel like a fully loaded freight train, hitting a brick wall.

I also contacted Jacoby for a Custom Cue and the price for mine would be around $800USD, without a shaft, as I own a lot of 5/16 - 14 shafts that I'll be able to use with it (Predator 314 [hate it!], Schon, Adam/Balabushka).

It might be wrong to not order it with a Jacoby Shaft, especially with the new hybrid Shafts that I've read so many nice things about them, but I thought that (if I eventually buy the Cue) it might be better to use one of the high-deflection Shafts I own (except of the Predator 314 which I hate because it doesn't deflect much), so as to not have to re-learn most of my playing from scratch (this is why I hate the Predator 314).

How does your Jacoby Custom Cue play in terms of different hits? I mean, how easy is it to control the cue-ball when playing draw, using one 4th of the shaft, half of the shaft, two 5th's of the Shaft and so on (I hope I'm making sense)? How mush effort do you have to put so as to have the cue-ball go like 90 degrees to the left/right after the hit, or make a small/large arch to the left/right using the same hit I tried to describe? How does it play when hitting another ball, say half a table away, near or on the cushion/rail, when using a lot or extreme left/right spin? Do you have to calculate for deflection and if so, after hitting the ball and the rail/cushion, does the cue-ball travel retaining the spin or does it loose much of the spin/momentum? Same thing using high/extreme upper spin (is it called english?).

Also, what kind of pin are you using? Have you tried to use a Shaft from another Cuemaker (Custom or Production) and if so, how did it do?

What do you mean by the below? I'm sorry if it's a stupid question but I'm currently brain-dead (still in the Office) and my English is not that good.

YubaCushion said:
I'm not saying that just because I can't afford them either. cause I could. And I have one coming.
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I'm almost sure you guys will start picking up on me but I'm really desperate and honest! And I need your help (or the help of a qualified brain surgeon :grin: :grin: :grin:)! So stop laughing and keep those posts coming! :grin: :grin: :grin:
 
The pin has changed roughly three times. Pre 93 shafts fit pre 93. 93 pins have the long nose, but are still 5/16x14. Post 93 the minor diameter of the pin increased allowing old shafts to fit old cues only, but new shafts will fit on all Schons. All of the pins are 5/16x14 with minor variances on the ID. Jacobys can be great playing cues, I do like them a lot.
I've had two Runde Schons and I have a Runde currently. The old Schons are not cored, which is one of the main reasons, I feel, on why they play so well. There is a Nova on the buy and sell that might fit the bill. Nubs Wagner worked at schon so his cues play similar. IMHO, unless a cue has sharp points, don't spend over 4/5 hundred.


Good luck in your hunt.
 
twal said:
The only difference is what you see. One is rounded and one is sharp. I don't believe a shap pointed cue play any better then a rounded CNC cue. Sometimes you got to use your own head and figiure out what makes good sense. Becareful on what you believe.

Like I said, they feel pretty much the same to me. Some swear by the Runde era. I think a lot of the mystique with these cues is that they are no longer being produced. Kind of like the theory that we always want what we can't have :)

I think you might be making this harder than what it is. I would suggest you find a Schon or Runde cues and buy one that looks nice to you (sharp pointed or not).

I would recommned you stay away from getting a custom build. You are almost always better off getting a used cue vs a new. Just make sure you are not overpaying for a used cue with no warrenty. If you go new, get it from one the forum sponsors and make sure you read the retrun policy. Usually you have 90 days to return it.
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I have no belief that sharp points will make a Cue play/feel better over time. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever, I'm not an expert, I'm definitely not a Cuemaker, so I don't really know. I'm just spending a lot of time reading opinions and discussing things with people that might know a thing or two more than I do, so as to have a general idea of what might be true, before I actually test/try something.

I agree with you that maybe the commotion regarding Runde-era Schon Cues is because we always want what we cannot have (because we cannot afford it, or because it is not available anymore, etc). Or maybe the material used and the lack of modern technology or machinery, was causing Cuemakers back then to pay more attention in the little details, which maybe they don't have to do now because of the latest machinery, technology and so on. I don't know, that's why I'm asking you guys. You've definitely played with a lot more Cues than what I've tried so far, so...

I'm also starting to agree with you regarding Custom Cues and Production (Schon specifically) Cues. From the things I've read so far in here and in other Forums, Schon Cues sound to me like Production Cues that are manufactured almost the same like a Custom Cue would be manufactured. Of course opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one and everyone thinks, everyone else's stinks and I don't have a lot of experiences from Schon and other Custom or Production Cues, so... :D

What should be considered a fair value for a Schon R6? $700 sounds fair to me but is it? How about an SL10? $600 - $700 would also sound fair to me but is it? I have no idea what a fair (market) price could be for a Schon Cue manufactured somewhere between 1980 (or later) - 2000 (or earlier)...
 
I don't use a lot of english, maybe a half tip or so. I did give it a few extreme english shots just to see, and the tip shaft combo could really move a ball if that's what you are asking. I would get the shaft when I get the cue so they are matched. Your cue would probably come with two shafts and then you could add one of their deflection shafts. I am sure they have their place, but players made great shots before and after the shafts, so. Remember, your cue may not hit like mine, but good cue makers make consistent products. It's not a blunt hit, but it does not feel like the softer hitting cues. Right in the middle, to me. If you have to go custom have a model you could reference to the maker so if you cant be on the same page you would at least be reading the same book.
 
I can see that there are 2 Schon STL-14 in the Sale section :D :D :D :D :D

Do you guys know anything regarding Cocobolo? Has anyone tried it on a Cue with Birdseye Maple? Does it play the same? Is the hit harder or softer or any different in general? Is the balance of the Cue affected? I mean, as far as I can tell, the balance for Schon Cues is towards the front. Is this affected by Cocobolo?
 
I have several Schon's. I've also owned a few Jacoby's. My everyday player is a Schon SR-7 (CNC'D) but I use a predator shaft. Which I love. I also own many R series Schon's as well. I own more R series Schons than any other. Those are very hard to put down as well. I don't think you can go wrong either way. R series are harder to find and more expensive but also hold their value.
Hit's can change a lot just based on tip selections , and if you use a low deflection shaft etc...
With this being said I know it's a tough choice. Wish I could give you more insite and answers but like anything you really have to "sample" to see how you like the "hit" and "feel" of any cue/shaft/tip set up try to judge yourself.
But if you like the stiff hit anyone of the 3 are very good choices.IMO.

-Jonas
 
I can see that there are 2 Schon STL-14 in the Sale section :D :D :D :D :D

Do you guys know anything regarding Cocobolo? Has anyone tried it on a Cue with Birdseye Maple? Does it play the same? Is the hit harder or softer or any different in general? Is the balance of the Cue affected? I mean, as far as I can tell, the balance for Schon Cues is towards the front. Is this affected by Cocobolo?
 
C'mon guys, please, does anyone have anything to say regarding Birdseye Maple - Cocobolo combination instead of Birdseye Maple - Ebony?

Have you tried Birdseye Maple - Cocobolo, especially on a Schon?

How does it play compared to Birdseye Maple - Ebony?

How was the hit? Was it any different? Was it stiff, stiffer, softer, any different whatsoever?
 
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