Kicking 1-rail w/ English

seymore15074

So what are you saying?
Silver Member
Kicking: Eliminating Guesswork by Chad Moore

This article is somewhat large, and will be a lot to take in at one time. I have inserted *** PRACTICE NOW BEFORE CONTINUING *** where I think you should stop and master the topics up to that point before learning more; you may need to read that section again a few times. Each of these sections build on top of the previous one.

The following techniques are what I use to "gauge" my kicks. I do not guess how to kick a ball, and neither should you. I am no pro and I encourage you to be skeptical. Perhaps Fast Larry will review this post and bring up any concerns?

I have read technique after technique on kicking, tried nearly everything, and I am only writing about what I have found to be the most useful. So many times I overhear some one teaching a beginner to kick (more commonly to bank) by imagining a line from the object ball to the rail and then from the rail to the cue-ball and then more lines from the rail to the other ball (or pocket) and then imagine where they cross and then follow that to the rail and THAT is where you shoot the ball. I laugh every time I hear it, while it certainly does work, you do not have to do all of that. I am going to keep it simple, I promise.

Here is my single-rail kicking system:

1. Place the tip of your cue at the rail (the one that you wish to kick off of) straight across from the object ball (or pocket).

2. Find the midpoint between the cue-ball and the object ball and move the cue over this point, while keeping the tip at the rail from step 1.

You cue is now showing the angle that you will shoot into the rail, but you are not done yet. You will be shooting the cue-ball PARALLEL to this.

3. Carefully slide the entire cue (as not to loose the angle) overtop of the cue-ball.

That's it, shoot the cue-ball down the path that you are holding your cue above.

Here are the precautions that you must take using this system. This kick is show at a soft-medium speed with center. Shooting this harder or with English will alter the path of the ball--how much is what I will tell you later.

Also, when the kick is over a large distance it is very difficult to move the cue parallel without loosing the angle. To assist with this, once you complete step 2, look at the diamonds at both ends of the cue and step down-table one diamond at a time until you are closer to the cue-ball.

Practice this simple kick, and it will become 2nd nature. I find it in seconds, and I no longer waste my time placing my finger down or holding the cue's tip in place; I just hold out my cue, slide it over, and shoot! This way no one will figure out your little system.

*** PRACTICE NOW BEFORE CONTINUING! ***

Not everyone's English reacts the same, so you must first calibrate or gauge what your stroke does for you.

Here is how to gauge your English:

Place the cue-ball at the head-spot and shoot the cue-ball directly down the center of the table into the middle diamond on the short-rail with high-right. The cue-ball will rebound off to the right. Do this a few times and see where it heads in relation to the corner pocket that is on your immediate right. Do this a few times, and be sure to get some consistency. I medium stroke, causes my cue-ball to hit the long-rail right before the pocket. I expect that your results will be similar, but not the same.

Measure the distance (in diamonds) from the middle diamond on the short-rail that you are shooting from to the where the cue-ball would be if it continued on to make it straight across from those same diamonds. If your cue-ball goes into the corner pocket without hitting the long-rail, then this measurement should be just under 2 diamonds. Mine, for example, heads straight at a point that is two diamonds to the right of the middle diamond; that is why it hits the long-rail just before the corner pocket.

*** PRACTICE NOW BEFORE CONTINUING! ***

To summarize the last section, we have learned that shooting straight into the rail with high-right causes the cue-ball to rebound with an angle that causes the cue-ball to move to the right x diamonds for every 8 diamonds that it travels. In my case, x happens to be 2, which works out really nice. Whatever x is for you, will work fine; it does not have to be the same as mine.

This concept is huge. You probably do not realize it yet, but you are now gauged. Let me explain:

We now know that shooting the cue-ball straight into the rail with high-right will send the cue-ball to the right x/2 diamonds over the course of 4 diamonds (8/2)! For example, my x = 2, so the cue-ball is 1 diamond (2/2) to the right while passing the side-pockets (8/2 = 4 diamonds).

The math is not what is important here, but if you ever forget, you can simply divide them by 2's again to figure this information out again.

How far would the cue-ball move to the right if it has rebounded 2 diamonds from the rail? In my case, it would be 1/2 a diamond.

*** PRACTICE NOW BEFORE CONTINUING! ***

Now, back to the single-rail kick. This kick and the previous section's information can be combined. If would like to kick a ball 4 diamonds from the rail using high-right, begin the kicking system (x/2; 1 in my case) diamonds short of the object ball and kick with the high-right.

This technique will eliminate the guess work when the is a ball in the way of a center kick. Or perhaps you would like to kick a ball that is hung in a corner pocket with high-right to get down table after kicking the ball in. The possibilities are endless!

You may be thinking, "What happens if I use straight-right?" Which, in my case, doubles x. You can gauge your straight-English by shooting down the center of the table just like before.

*** PRACTICE NOW BEFORE CONTINUING! ***

I am not going to walk you through gauging hard kicks or reverse English, experiment on your own. For my stroke, kicking hard comes short 1/2 a diamond over 4 diamonds. Most people find it unusual that I line up for a bank and then drill it home, they just don't realize that I am adjusting for it.

Remember that you can chain this knowledge together in one shot, if you so desire.

Guesswork should only be a last resort.

That being said, perhaps I'll write some more another day. Let me know what you all think of this, I hope you find it helpful. I figured out the gauging your English thing laying in bed one night...it's so simple and so obvious, but I really don't think most people know it.
 
I just want so hear some feedback on this, I used this system Saturday night and made the ball that I was kicking at...

I wrote this a while back and was reminded by the do you dream about pool thread...
 
seymore15074 said:
I just want so hear some feedback on this, I used this system Saturday night and made the ball that I was kicking at...

I wrote this a while back and was reminded by the do you dream about pool thread...


This is kind of like 'kicking for dummies'. In otherwords, if you have absolutely no clue what to do when kicking, you can use this system. How the cue-ball reacts when it comes in contact with the rail is going to vary immensely when top or bottom is used, left or right, hard or soft and that's all on the same table. Tables will vary, too.

I know every single post I have seems to preach the same message: You have to trust yourself. You already know what the cue-ball is going to do so instead of relying on some book, why not try relying on your own experiences and seeing what your instincts tell you?

I know, it's frightening. You feel as though you're not trying if you can't refer to a system every single time you take a shot. However, you're no different than any other athlete out there. Take off the training wheels and try seeing how far you can go.
 
seymore15074 said:
I just want so hear some feedback on this, Earth to seymore.....earth to seymore......I used this system Saturday night and made the ball that I was kicking at...

I wrote this a while back and was reminded by the do you dream about pool thread...

I wish I had those 10 minutes of my life back....that's my feedback...:)
 
Seymore, you should search here for a member named DeadAim and his set of posts titled Kicking Academy, great stuff. Then go buy Freddys book.

My feedback for you.

Dave
 
seymore15074 said:
I just want so hear some feedback on this, I used this system Saturday night and made the ball that I was kicking at...

I wrote this a while back and was reminded by the do you dream about pool thread...
This post should be added to the: pool suggestions you should avoid thread.
 
seymore15074 said:
...Here is my single-rail kicking system:...
And you expected constructive criticism? :o You can ignore several of the above posts. If you were Efren Reyes and said exactly the same thing, these same people would be besides themselves with gratitude.

Have you tested your gauging technique with many shots at different incoming angles? Does it work pretty well as is, or do you find that you have to make some adjustments?

Jim
 
I started doing something similar to this after watching Grady's Kicking and Banking tape and practicing what he showed.

It works and, for me, is more accurate than just trying to "feel" what to do. You must practice it and learn how much English to apply to make the ball move 1,2 or 3 diamonds on cross table and lengthwise banks. It is very useful when the natural kicking angles are blocked as happens many times.

For me there is no one "ideal" system that covers all situations. You must learn and master several ways to accomplish the same end and then choose the one approptiate for the shot at hand.

The Kicking Academy articles mentioned above and "Banking with the Beard" are also excellent resources as are the Dr. Cue(Tom Rossman) and Grady's tapes on banking and kicking.

I use all of these plus the "Over the second diamond spot on the wall", mirror system, etc. depending on the shot. Sometimes, but very rarely do I shoot a kick just by "feel" because my "feel" is not a good as my calculations.

On the other hand, when I make a difficult hit on a multi-rail kick and someone asks how I did it, my reply is " I don't know, just a lucky guess."
 
GADawg said:
It works and, for me, is more accurate than just trying to "feel" what to do. You must practice it and learn how much English to apply to make the ball move 1,2 or 3 diamonds on cross table and lengthwise banks. It is very useful when the natural kicking angles are blocked as happens many times.

For me there is no one "ideal" system that covers all situations. You must learn and master several ways to accomplish the same end and then choose the one approptiate for the shot at hand.

Exactly. I kick very well, but this applies to when you are stuck in a tough spot... I hope everyone realizes that.
 
Jal said:
And you expected constructive criticism? :o You can ignore several of the above posts. If you were Efren Reyes and said exactly the same thing, these same people would be besides themselves with gratitude.

Have you tested your gauging technique with many shots at different incoming angles? Does it work pretty well as is, or do you find that you have to make some adjustments?

Jim

Jim, it adds the same amount (assuming you hit it the same each time) to any angle. For example, if you kick high-right straight into the rail and get an extra X degrees to the right rebound, then kicking high-right into the rail at a 45 will rebound 45+X degrees.... It's a concept to estimate when you cannot use a better means...

It is really a simple concept, I just broke it down a little more than most...it might get somebody else to come up with an additional theory... Share the information, that's what forums should be all about.
 
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