Learning 3-Cushion - what are the best resources...

dogloose

dogloose

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Billiardshot has been posting interesting web sites with 3C diagrams... and a reply post in a recent thread commented that one site had diagrams that may in fact be flawed!

Maybe so... but I recognize there is quite a challenge in developing this type of instruction through diagram. Diagrams are 2-dimensional... the real world is 3-dimensional! Not wanting to hijack billiardshot's thread I decided to start my own here...

So here is the challenge: I would like to see an example of what purports to be the "gold standard" of 3C diagrams... what can anyone offer as the "truest" representation in a 2-dimensional diagram of what takes place in the 3-dimensional real world... just one example would be nice...

I have copies of Hoppe's "Billiards As It Should Be Played"... Byrne's "New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards"... Harris' "Billiard Atlas"... and have also observed many web sites with shot diagrams (thanks in part to billiardshot's posts!) All of them have diagrams... lots and lots of diagrams!

I'm no expert... but I certainly believe I have gained some value from them all... flawed diagrams or not.

Anyone care to say what is out there that they think is a "best" resource... or worst... and why? Does a poor diagram spoil what might otherwise be a good explanation in the text... and vice versa?

With so few places to play... and so few instructors... short of trial and error... printed and Internet resources may be the only way we can keep knowledge of this great game going... so what do you recommend and why?
 
Doug,
I have been studying Ceulemans Book "Mister 100" a bit and have found it to be very helpful. Some of the systems in there get to be quite technical and I actually tend to overlook them because I gear my game more towards feel than constantly doing the number crunching. I suppose as I progress I'll have learned more systems and be able to incorporate them quickly and efficiently but until then...
I have also started looking at Eddie Robins book of position play that seems to offer some excellent information so far. Hope this helps!
 
Thanks caromcorner... I will try to find copies of Ceulemans' and Robins' work. I also began playing by "feel" and learning by trial and error. But the more I read about the game... and the more I get to apply... the more I believe there is a great advantage to understanding the physics and the mathematical aspects of the game. Number crunching doesn't deter me... I try to validate my instincts whenever I can from the few systems I have learned so far. I love the game... and the challenge of solving the puzzle in every shot. I hope one day I can actually compete in a tournament and fair well based on my acquired knowledge, dedication and practice.

Anyone else have any comments on the books and authors mentioned here? And the open question about good vs bad diagrams???
 
Dogloose, Thanks for your comment. Never worry about highjacking one of my thread.

95% of stuff on the internet/online can be found here http://kr.blog.yahoo.com/scarecrow8999/1568. But you decide.

There only one online true study course for 3C and that FFB website [only problem in French,

Les cahiers techniques These are PDF File, you will need a 4 1/2" or 6" Binder for storage of download materials. if you need help PM me, dogloose.

http://www.ffbillard.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=33&Itemid=52

http://www.ffbillard.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=98&Itemid=155

Any materiasl/videos better than none!!!!!!!
 
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gold standard ?

With 1.MY cue 2. held MY way 3.Useing MY stroke ... strength,speed, amount of spin, accuracy of the hit on the first and second ball , follow through or stop with arm or the loose wrist ect ect. 4. On MY table clean or dirty old or new balls 5. With MY new or old...dirty or clean tight or loose cloth on fast rails or old slow rails on a heated or none heated table anyone can change any system shot in the book. Soooooooooooooo.. I learn from the printed word or picture and adjust for the table I'm playng on. Diamond 4 to diamond two is suppose to go to the corner with a smooth follow through stroke and back to diamond four on the original rail. Except when it does'nt.:eek: I have not seen poor diagrams yet, just a lack of imformation with those diagrams . I think a gold standard would be an example that in the end has everything being equal or the same for everyone shooting the shot and all the information they need to preform this shot exactly as instructed. This can be done on paper only. In reality,1,2,3,4,5 ect get in the way. So the best resources available now for imformation are all of them you can make work for YOU. I dont think Bill Smith uses the entire Tusul system when he plays or Tusul uses all of the Bill Smith systems. It's all very intriguing a ?
 
Dogloose,

I am sure looking into Diagrams give you an idea about the geometry of the shot, But TECHNICALLY it give you nothing .

My advise is to be instructed by some of the good players in the US,
or attend some of the clinics (if any )
That should help you and make your progression very quick!
 
The non-English sites have interesting diagrams... but I find them a little tedious to study... and there's too much uncertainty about what I might be missing from the text. I tried Google translate... but then the text often borders on the comical! Still... I bookmark every one... so thanks billiardshot!

Have you seen this web site:

http://billiardsystems.com/

I saw a Youtube about their instructional method called the Natural Results System. In spite of the "pricey" cost... I decided to buy all the downloads to add to my billiard instruction collection. Very interesting approach so far. They start off with a Dead Ball system to "get to the corner" from anywhere on the table... then follow the return path out of the corner to the "fourth rail"... and ultimately build on that to shots around the table without and then with English. A very systematic approach... The downloads are interactive learning slides that have diagrams and embedded videos of each type of shot (from world class players - Ceulemans, Blomdahl, Sayginer, Sang Lee!)

Anyone else ever buy the downloads from Billiard Systems? Comments?
 
Good point Fox! Book learning can only take you so far... I recognize that everything you do at the table influences your result... Stance, grip, stroke, speed, hit, etc. And table conditions are a big factor as well in how true the shot will follow the expected path. Still... you have to start someplace and "booking-up" followed by table time for trial and error practice seems to be my only/best option at this time.

The room where I play has 3 great tables (heated Gabriels) and 3 not so great tables (smaller, older, non-heated) The regular players there all play very well and there is always a wait for a game on the good tables. When I can get there early I can usually get a game... but mostly I play on the non-heated (almost always one or two open). The angles are different... and the balls roll MUCH slower... but I try to adjust and consider that part of learning the game.

An open request to the 3C community here at AZ: I live in Houston Texas... does anyone know of an instructor that is near me... I would welcome the opportunity to learn from someone with knowledge and experience.
 
Dogloose!


Believe it or not, most of the French players ( A regionale ) practice everyday like an hour on a small table !(before they move to the billiard match) very important , it gives you less error ,control of the kiss! more precision and of course CONFIDENCE !
 
dogloose, Fox, is right get instruction. You can find a list at usba.net. I believe there might be 1600 different systems in 3c, if not more. I once was told. There were five basic shots to work on.
1. The open break, learn to play it properly.
2. The short angle
3. the plus 2 system
4.Rail first
5. group 3 postion [ is when all 3balls are in the open, along the same long rail, within 1 diamond of the rail, and the cue ball is between the 2 object balls. As defined by Eddie Robin in his book.]

I'm only a Banger and No Math. or Engineer Degree!!! But a Studier of the Game!!
 
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