Liquor / Rent

RoadHustler

RoadHustler

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We have been kicking around the idea of opening a pool room for the past year or so, ever since our tournament business took off. We have run two tournaments per week for the last year and a half, averaging 20 players per tournament. People are happy with our work. In this time, we have had over 200 customers, League and Non League. At least 10% of our players have traveled further than 30 miles to play in our tournaments, in lieu of tournaments in their home towns.

So here are my questions:

1. Can a pool hall survive without offering liquor, beer or wine?

2. If you currently run such an establishment what is your rent per square foot or what is your rent and square footage? And how many tables do you have?

3. What has been your experience attracting league teams?
(we spoke with Jean Balukas at Hall of Fame Billiards and she expressed her concerns about paying the bills or attracting league teams in Brooklyn without liquor)

4. Has anyone tried youth leagues and if so how successful were they?

I am not a total novice to the business. I successfully managed Jillians and Big City in Boston along with extensive experience managing other restaurants in the Boston metro area.

We will be, at least for now, the only game in town with any interest in the pool communities. Can this work? Can you run a family room in America today? Would you frequent a Billiard Cafe with quality tournaments and reasonably priced practice time? Would your team play league there if they had the only quality tables in town?

Or do I need to open a restaurant with my spare millions to get a beer and wine license, a private club, or sell my child for a liquor license? (you may be wondering why i have to sell my son to get a liquor license but only have to spend my spare millions for a beer and wine...New Mexico laws...i don't ask questions).

Thanks for any advice!
 
I would say in MOST areas pool MUST be subsidized. Pool players are rarely willing to pay what it really costs to run a nice pool room. It has to be subsidized through alcohol or retail sales. My room is alcohol free but it is supported by retail sales which bring in a majority or our income. We own our building, our pool rates are from 1992 and still have difficulty getting the pool room full. Good luck in your business venture!

EDIT: We have had trouble bringing in league team because you only need one player per team addicted to cigs or alcohol which will keep the entire team from switching to your room. Both of our leagues are IN HOUSE and are popular. I would say if you have "MILLIONS" to invest you can surely endure the economy.
 
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Thank you, Craig

cueandcushion said:
I would say in MOST areas pool MUST be subsidized. Pool players are rarely willing to pay what it really costs to run a nice pool room. It has to be subsidized through alcohol or retail sales. My room is alcohol free but it is supported by retail sales which bring in a majority or our income. We own our building, our pool rates are from 1992 and still have difficulty getting the pool room full. Good luck in your business venture!

EDIT: We have had trouble bringing in league team because you only need one player per team addicted to cigs or alcohol which will keep the entire team from switching to your room. Both of our leagues are IN HOUSE and are popular. I would say if you have "MILLIONS" to invest you can surely endure the economy.
Click to expand...

I actually just spoke with your mom. I found your room on the web and added you folks to my recon call list Last night. Thank you both for your help. :thumbup:
It seems pretty sad that in many markets even avid pool players don't feel that a quality room with a community feel and a good game can overcome a faceless corporate bar that would be just as happy with a ping pong table if people would pay a dollar a game to play on it. I hope for all our sakes everyone I have spoken to is wrong. Or in one generation the pool table will be relegated to senior centers since no one under 21 will ever learn to play.

I'm calling Hard Times Next maybe they can cheer me up.

How many people have tried a Billiard Club paid for by membership, or any other model that would allow younger players. Coffee Shop, Deli, any other concepts that still allow pool to exist with its dignity intact. Or are we all just waiting to die? :confused:
 
One conversation I had with a Father Son spoke volumes about the next generation and their aversion to pool. Its not the fault of pool by any means. It is the current addition in instant gratification and instant learning. Kids today have been accustomed to becoming an "EXPERT" in any imaginary field due to video games.

Father: Since I am here buying a new cue, maybe I can get one for you too, and we could start playing.
Son: I already play pool.
Father: You do? Where?
Son: I play online. I am already a PRO Level 4. Why would I play in here and have to start all over?

That is what so many kids think about a lot of skills in life. If they master it online then they have accomplished something. Few have learned yet that its all been manipulated to make them feel good. Not make them better at anything.

Thank you for the kind words. My family works very hard under some difficult parameters to have a family friendly place that welcomes all races, ages, lifestyles. Most avid players...they do not support the typical room. Meaning there are not ENOUGH of them. Most rooms are supported in the long run by people that cannot run 3 balls. That is just simple demographics. It's 90% of your clientele. Although regulars are less than 10% they account for 30% of your dollars. So..it is always a balance making everyone happy.

Pool rooms are doing poorly these days because there are too many of them and they did not evolve with society. They have to change if the next generation wants to see them in person and not on YouTube.

EDIT: And don't hate on Ping Pong, lol. We have had ping pong in the past and it will make you money. Being diverse is key to running a successful room.
 
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Found a positive story

And Right in my back yard just 70 miles away. Dante's Deli and Billiard hall in Taos New Mexico. He is happily doing just fine no alcohol 8 tables tournaments 4 nights a week and great business. It can be done Craig I am gonna pm you my contact info cause I would like to talk some more at some point. and Thank you, for your time...

Anyone else have any ideas.:embarrassed2:
 
Family pool rooms

There is no question that it can be done. We have been a no alcohol room for 23 years in a small area and have always done well. We own our building, but didn't in the beginning, and could never have made it work in an expensive strip mall or someplace like that. It will all depend on your original setup. This economy has made it impossible to survive for many existing pool rooms, but created some opportunities for those looking to create new places. Lots of available buildings with owners eager or even desperate to get tenants has opened up opportunities that didn't exist 5 years ago. Many of those owners didn't want a poolroom in their building back then. They get a little more receptive when the building sits empty for 2 years. Another big advantage is all of the cheap equipment around now from all of the failed rooms. I agree with Craig on 2 major points. The first is that you need more than just pool to survive. When we started the 'legs of our stool' so to speak were pool, video games, retail sales, and food. And by pool I mean table sales, service work on tables around town, making and repairing cues, and lessons. These days, our kid's video games make nothing-they can play better games on their home systems. We still do ok in retail, but the internet is taking a large part of that away and it increases each year. It's hard to compete with the big sites that have little overhead. The big box retailers like Costco sell Brunswick and other tables cheap, and Craigslist is where they all look for used tables. None of these things are going to change and the day will come when it's hard to sell very many cues other than on the internet. Having something, like the Deli you spoke to yesterday, that supliments pool and can't be taken away by the internet is very important. The other major point that Craig makes is summed up beautifully by his story about the man and his son who is a 'pro' on the internet, but can't make a ball in real life. Young people these days are interested in all things electronic, have short attention spans, little interest in physical activities that take years to master, and don't need your poolroom to be socially active with their friends. They have Facebook and iphones for that. You may well make a huge effort to create a place that is great for young people, only to find out that they aren't interested in going there anyway. It's this last point that has us looking at a beer and wine license. Why concentrate on a group that's not interested? In the end, it all depends on your area. Good Luck:)

Dave Smith
oldschoolpool.com
 
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