Long stroke vs. short stroke?

[PGHteacher]

Ok if this has been talked about a lot I sure have had no luck in finding it. I am having an argument with my friend and wanted to know every ones opinion about type of stroke having an effect on the path of the cue ball, not how the (for most people) body functions; but JUST the different type of stroke. I hope I am being clear, some may need a farther explanation.

 

[naji]

Ok if this has been talked about a lot I sure have had no luck in finding it. I am having an argument with my friend and wanted to know every ones opinion about type of stroke having an effect on the path of the cue ball, not how the (for most people) body functions; but JUST the different type of stroke. I hope I am being clear, some may need a farther explanation.

Long bridge stroke to get your warm ups in line of shot this allows you arm to be in line with the aim, at delivery do long slow pull with long follow through for short to medium long shots, for very long shots, and very thin cuts still long bridge (as much as possible) and long warm ups, but at final delivery after pause pull only about 1/2 to an inch and follow through. The long bridge eliminate or minimize cue deflection, but you still have to account for stun with english shot.

If you use short bridge your warm ups must be very fast and hard, to get the arms to follow the aim, other wise you will be out of the aim line

 

[poolguy4u]

On a 9 foot table I let my stroke go and it is long.


On a 7 foot table I use a short stroke...not quite as short as Allen Hopkins though.:smile:

 

[RRfireblade]

......type of stroke having an effect on the path of the cue ball , not how the (for most people) body functions; but JUST the different type of stroke.

I don't see how the length of stroke, with no other factors, can have any effect on the CBs path in anyway.

It has no idea how long your stroke was when it gets hit.

Let me know if I misunderstand the question.

 

[naji]

I don't see how the length of stroke, with no other factors, can have any effect on the CBs path in anyway.

It has no idea how long your stroke was when it gets hit.

Major effect on aiming and lining aim, of which translates to different CB direction than intended. Major reason for making you wonder why i missed easy ball

 

[RRfireblade]

Major effect on aiming and lining aim, of which translates to different CB direction than intended. Major reason for making you wonder why i missed easy ball

Wrong ,sorry.

Those are physical effects not at all related to length of stroke and CB path.

 

[RRfireblade]

For instance, your set up a robot with a dead straight 6" stroke and a 12" stroke. Center of CB hit.

No possible change in CB path between the 2 shots.

 

[Uski]

do u mean bridge length? or the diffrent types of stroke shots?

 

[PGHteacher]

I don't see how the length of stroke, with no other factors, can have any effect on the CBs path in anyway.

It has no idea how long your stroke was when it gets hit.

Let me know if I misunderstand the question.

Yes so far as I can tell you are the only one who has understood the question, I don't know how to phrase it any other way; at least not now. My friend (who is an excellent player) swers that type of stroke effects the CB in certain ways and I keep telling him that simple physics say otherwise, and I actually put it to him exactly the same way; I said "the CB doesn't care what KIND of stroke you put on it, it only knows where you hit it, at what angle and how hard you hit it AND THAT'S IT!" but he was taught by this former touring pro and actually toured around with him and he stands by this statement and says that I don't know what I am talking about.

 

[Maestro]

Shorter stroke = less chance of error, however - tension must not build up with inhibited range of movement. Different shots demand different approch IMHO.

 

[naji]

For instance, your set up a robot with a dead straight 6" stroke and a 12" stroke. Center of CB hit.

No possible change in CB path between the 2 shots.

Maybe i am not making myself clear. With long stroke, you tend to swing your arm more than a short bridge at warm ups. This swing, i critical in making sure your arm and mussels are in line with aim. Short bridge on other hand, have smaller swing, of which your mussels are not fully extended and there is a tendency to miss line the aim on long shots (you think for sure you are lined up, but not). 99% of pro players have long bridge/stroke for aim,for canceling cue deflection, and applying long follow through which applies effective english on CB

 

[PGHteacher]

Maybe i am not making myself clear. With long stroke, you tend to swing your arm more than a short bridge at warm ups. This swing, i critical in making sure your arm and mussels are in line with aim. Short bridge on other hand, have smaller swing, of which your mussels are not fully extended and there is a tendency to miss line the aim on long shots (you think for sure you are lined up, but not). 99% of pro players have long bridge/stroke for aim,for canceling cue deflection, and applying long follow through which applies effective english on CB

Yes but I said;

Ok if this has been talked about a lot I sure have had no luck in finding it. I am having an argument with my friend and wanted to know every ones opinion about type of stroke having an effect on the path of the cue ball, not how the (for most people) body functions; but JUST the different type of stroke. I hope I am being clear, some may need a farther explanation.

 

[bbb]

I don't see how the length of stroke, with no other factors, can have any effect on the CBs path in anyway.

It has no idea how long your stroke was when it gets hit.

Let me know if I misunderstand the question.

agree 100%

 

[sfleinen]

Yes so far as I can tell you are the only one who has understood the question, I don't know how to phrase it any other way; at least not now. My friend (who is an excellent player) swers that type of stroke effects the CB in certain ways and I keep telling him that simple physics say otherwise, and I actually put it to him exactly the same way; I said "the CB doesn't care what KIND of stroke you put on it, it only knows where you hit it, at what angle and how hard you hit it AND THAT'S IT!" but he was taught by this former touring pro and actually toured around with him and he stands by this statement and says that I don't know what I am talking about.

John:

Other than the "line of aim" observations that others are trying to point out, I think there's no difference in what happens to the cue ball related to stroke length, as long as other things remain constant.

What *does* affect the cue ball related to stroke, however, is the grip. Loose/wristy grip usually results in a lively cue ball. A tight/non-wristy grip has the opposite effect.

In fact, to really demonstrate the difference grip pressure makes, if you use a normal grip on a level cue when hitting an extreme draw shot, you get just that -- an extreme draw shot. Now, use a tight grip on that cue (and I mean a death grip), and hit the same shot, in exactly the same place on the cue ball, with the same power, using the same level cue. Really focus on keeping that cue level, don't allow the cue ball to deflect the tip, and follow through. Result -- most often, you'll "lift" the cue ball up off the table surface (without scooping!), and not get a draw shot at all.

That's the only thing related to the "stroke" that I can see has an effect on the cue ball -- the grip. Not the length of stroke or anything like that.

-Sean

 

[Patrick Johnson]

naji:
The long bridge eliminate or minimize cue deflection

Bridge length has nothing to do with "cue deflection" (squirt).

naji:
long follow through which applies effective english on CB

Follow through helps you hit the CB where you intend to, nothing more. Hitting the CB where you intend to (with or without follow through) is how you "apply effective english".

pj
chgo

 

[RRfireblade]

Yes so far as I can tell you are the only one who has understood the question, I don't know how to phrase it any other way; at least not now. My friend (who is an excellent player) swers that type of stroke effects the CB in certain ways and I keep telling him that simple physics say otherwise, and I actually put it to him exactly the same way; I said "the CB doesn't care what KIND of stroke you put on it, it only knows where you hit it, at what angle and how hard you hit it AND THAT'S IT!" but he was taught by this former touring pro and actually toured around with him and he stands by this statement and says that I don't know what I am talking about.

Just tell him cause I said so , that should set him straight.

 

[PGHteacher]

John:

Other than the "line of aim" observations that others are trying to point out, I think there's no difference in what happens to the cue ball related to stroke length, as long as other things remain constant.

What *does* affect the cue ball related to stroke, however, is the grip. Loose/wristy grip usually results in a lively cue ball. A tight/non-wristy grip has the opposite effect.

In fact, to really demonstrate the difference grip pressure makes, if you use a normal grip on a level cue when hitting an extreme draw shot, you get just that -- an extreme draw shot. Now, use a tight grip on that cue (and I mean a death grip), and hit the same shot, in exactly the same place on the cue ball, with the same power, using the same level cue. Really focus on keeping that cue level, don't allow the cue ball to deflect the tip, and follow through. Result -- most often, you'll "lift" the cue ball up off the table surface (without scooping!), and not get a draw shot at all.

That's the only thing related to the "stroke" that I can see has an effect on the cue ball -- the grip. Not the length of stroke or anything like that.

-Sean

I thought that on any draw shot the only 2 things that mattered were how low you hit it and how hard you hit it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

JoWhat *does* affect the cue ball related to stroke, however, is the grip. Loose/wristy grip usually results in a lively cue ball. A tight/non-wristy grip has the opposite effect.

In fact, to really demonstrate the difference grip pressure makes, if you use a normal grip on a level cue when hitting an extreme draw shot, you get just that -- an extreme draw shot. Now, use a tight grip on that cue (and I mean a death grip), and hit the same shot, in exactly the same place on the cue ball, with the same power, using the same level cue. Really focus on keeping that cue level, don't allow the cue ball to deflect the tip, and follow through. Result -- most often, you'll "lift" the cue ball up off the table surface (without scooping!), and not get a draw shot at all.

That's the only thing related to the "stroke" that I can see has an effect on the cue ball -- the grip. Not the length of stroke or anything like that.

I don't think grip has any more direct effect on cue ball action than bridge length does. But it can easily have the same kind of indirect effect: screwing up tip/CB placement accuracy.

I don't think the "lifting" effect you describe is real unless you miss-hit the CB.

pj
chgo

 

[sfleinen]

I thought that on any draw shot the only 2 things that mattered were how low you hit it and how hard you hit it.

Try hitting that draw shot with a tight/death grip and force-following through. I'll bet you'll lift that cue ball up off the table, and you never touched the table surface! The reason why this happens is that with the tight/death grip, you're minimizing the natural deflection of the cue tip away from the cue ball, and instead the cue tip is forcing the cue ball upwards.

Give it a try.
-Sean

 

[bbb]

I don't think grip has any more direct effect on cue ball action than bridge length does. But it can easily have the same kind of indirect effect: screwing up tip/CB placement accuracy.

I don't think the "lifting" effect you describe is real unless you misshit the CB.

pj
chgo

you beat me to the post
the death grip often indirectly causes the cue to raise which raises the contact point on the cue ball thus less draw
also loose grip might allow for more acceleration thus faster speed at contact(last point my theory)