Looking For Opinions Re: Kielwood Cue Shafts.

[Bavafongoul]

I have previously posted that CF shafts and my pool game do not align well. After playing original maple shafts for way longer than most players, making the switch to CF is just too bothersome. I do not play enough pool competitively to make the transition and pool now is played purely for the satisfaction I derive from playing well. I do not need to play better to improve my game. I really just need to avoid stroke flaws that happen and I just miss a shot I could have, and all too often, should have easily pocketed. When I miss, it sometimes is the easiest shot imaginable. I overstretch to reach a shot and still shoot it rather than use a bridge or play it opposite handed. That’s all on me for getting lazy and not respecting the table. I earned that by being careless or lackadaisical in my pre-shot routine.

Since I like playing with wood shafts versus synthetic material, I’ve been interested in getting a Kielwood shaft. The choices are vast as there are a lot of brands to consider and of course, there is always contacting my cue maker to build me one. So I am looking for suggestions on the best Kielwood shaft. Here’s what I want……a flat faced big pin joint, 12.75 mm, extended pro taper (15-16”), ferrule and min. Wt. of 4 ozs. The weight is important because I want this shaft to match the weight of the original shafts of my cues. I could even go up a few grams but going lighter would be in the wrong direction. I realize that torrifying lightens the wood so 4 ozs. weight Is unusual as most Kielwood shafts weighing that much are usually piloted. I need a flat faced wood shaft sans any receiver that would add to the weight.

Thanks for sharing your views about Kielwood shafts. Again, I have no interest in CF shafts so please avoid comparing CF and Kielwood. Anyone know whom is known for making the heaviest Kielwood shafts? Could a 12.5 mm shaft weigh 4.0 ozs. or is that diameter too thin? I want to maintain the weight proportionality of my cue shafts and cue butts so really 4.0 ozs is the min. weight I need in a Kielwood shaft. Price ranges I’ve seen range from low 200 dollars to $500 for most Kielwood shafts. Anyone have recommendations about which brand Kielwood shaft and reasons why?

 

[ACL]

I am big fan of the Hsunami shafts made by Richard Hsu. IMHO, they are the best out there. He hand makes each one and his workmanship is second to none. They aren't cheap and take a long time (last I heard the lead time is about 16 weeks, maybe longer). His level of customization and quality make it worth the wait.

 

[Michael Webb]

I am big fan of the Hsunami shafts made by Richard Hsu. IMHO, they are the best out there. He hand makes each one and his workmanship is second to none. They aren't cheap and take a long time (last I heard the lead time is about 16 weeks, maybe longer). His level of customization and quality make it worth the wait.

Agreed.
All my Customers who ask about Kielwood shafts. I point them in Mr. Hsu's direction!

 

[MmmSharp]

Very similar story here. I can play with cf, but prefer wood by long shot. Was curious about keilwood shafts for a while, and ended up with a 60" Diveney cue with two of his keilwood shafts.

The shafts are play great, and are extremely stiff. There is next to no flex in the shafts. That felt weird to me when playing. Less deflection as well. Felt fine in my ungloved hands.

Tried the shafts on different cues. One of the shafts is quite heavier but all the weight is close to the joint so even with the heavier shaft the cues balance point felt butt heavy to me, when they are front heavy with my standard wood shafts.

Spent a few nights playing with them. Decided i prefer my solid maple shafts better. I will let the diveney go if somone asks for it. It played fine, just boils down to old dog and new tricks.

 

[smoochie]

I have previously posted that CF shafts and my pool game do not align well. After playing original maple shafts for way longer than most players, making the switch to CF is just too bothersome. I do not play enough pool competitively to make the transition and pool now is played purely for the satisfaction I derive from playing well. I do not need to play better to improve my game. I really just need to avoid stroke flaws that happen and I just miss a shot I could have, and all too often, should have easily pocketed. When I miss, it sometimes is the easiest shot imaginable. I overstretch to reach a shot and still shoot it rather than use a bridge or play it opposite handed. That’s all on me for getting lazy and not respecting the table. I earned that by being careless or lackadaisical in my pre-shot routine.

Since I like playing with wood shafts versus synthetic material, I’ve been interested in getting a Kielwood shaft. The choices are vast as there are a lot of brands to consider and of course, there is always contacting my cue maker to build me one. So I am looking for suggestions on the best Kielwood shaft. Here’s what I want……a flat faced big pin joint, 12.75 mm, extended pro taper (15-16”), ferrule and min. Wt. of 4 ozs. The weight is important because I want this shaft to match the weight of the original shafts of my cues. I could even go up a few grams but going lighter would be in the wrong direction. I realize that torrifying lightens the wood so 4 ozs. weight Is unusual as most Kielwood shafts weighing that much are usually piloted. I need a flat faced wood shaft sans any receiver that would add to the weight.

Thanks for sharing your views about Kielwood shafts. Again, I have no interest in CF shafts so please avoid comparing CF and Kielwood. Anyone know whom is known for making the heaviest Kielwood shafts? Could a 12.5 mm shaft weigh 4.0 ozs. or is that diameter too thin? I want to maintain the weight proportionality of my cue shafts and cue butts so really 4.0 ozs is the min. weight I need in a Kielwood shaft. Price ranges I’ve seen range from low 200 dollars to $500 for most Kielwood shafts. Anyone have recommendations about which brand Kielwood shaft and reasons why?

Its a long post but I saw the first paragraph and I want to ask you one thing. I know you said that you've played with maple all your life and cannot make the switch to CF.

My question to you, have you tried CF for a long duration i.e. daily use for couple of months then came up to that conclusion? Or is it the typical, one two shots where you heard a sound that you didn't like then you said CF isnt for you?

I ask this because most ppl especially the elderly aren't good with adapting with new/technology, they just refuse to use them, I know a guy who still refusing to switch to iphones because he's too used to his Nokia, he goes with the same ol' "Oh this app thing full screen isnt for me" I'm not pointing with this toward you I'm just stating facts and maybe you're not like that and this is why I am asking you.... have you played with a REVO for two/three months to conclude this? or is it a one day or few shots then you went "Oh the sound of this sucks, I'm maple guy"

 

[Bavafongoul]

Its a long post but I saw the first paragraph and I want to ask you one thing. I know you said that you've played with maple all your life and cannot make the switch to CF.

My question to you, have you tried CF for a long duration i.e. daily use for couple of months then came up to that conclusion? Or is it the typical, one two shots where you heard a sound that you didn't like then you said CF isnt for you?

I ask this because most ppl especially the elderly aren't good with adapting with new/technology, they just refuse to use them, I know a guy who still refusing to switch to iphones because he's too used to his Nokia, he goes with the same ol' "Oh this app thing full screen isnt for me" I'm not pointing with this toward you I'm just stating facts and maybe you're not like that and this is why I am asking you.... have you played with a REVO for two/three months to conclude this? or is it a one day or few shots then you went "Oh the sound of this sucks, I'm maple guy"

I tried CF shafts from Easter Sunday thru Memorial Day Weekend……every time I practiced, I used CF shafts.
When I had a competitive match, I used my orig.cue maker maple shafts that I have played with since 1962.

I fully comprehend how the cue ball behaves and a cue shaft doesn’t fix a poor stroking motion. The adjustment in aim
point, rotational speed of the cue ball with running and reverse English applications, it changed more than I thought. My
miss tendency was to undercut long angle shots whereas before my tendency was to over-cut a long shot when I missed
the OB. Most of my buddies play CF, except for the older players that still favor wood. Well, I put myself in that category.

Does anyone know a brand of Kielwood shaft that’s 12.5 to 12.75mm, flat faced big pin joint w/extended pro taper that weighs 4 ozs or heavier? The closet KW shaft I’ve seen is Richard Hsu’s version. Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[Benelli]

I was going to get Pat to make me two 30" Kielwood shafts in a 12.5 and a 12.25 and then get Mike to make a 30" CF shaft in 12.5 and that would be my playing quiver. The butt has a 3/8x12 joint so I can never find anything "off the shelf" for it...

My preference is to only play with the Kielwood shafts. I've been playing with McD defy on a Viking butt and it's ok but when I play at home with other cues that have nice wood shafts I feel like I shoot better (more accurately) with the wood.

 

[David in FL]

I am big fan of the Hsunami shafts made by Richard Hsu. IMHO, they are the best out there. He hand makes each one and his workmanship is second to none. They aren't cheap and take a long time (last I heard the lead time is about 16 weeks, maybe longer). His level of customization and quality make it worth the wait.

Agree.

I've had mine for about 18 months now and absolutely love it.

I have previously posted that CF shafts and my pool game do not align well. After playing original maple shafts for way longer than most players, making the switch to CF is just too bothersome. I do not play enough pool competitively to make the transition and pool now is played purely for the satisfaction I derive from playing well. I do not need to play better to improve my game. I really just need to avoid stroke flaws that happen and I just miss a shot I could have, and all too often, should have easily pocketed. When I miss, it sometimes is the easiest shot imaginable. I overstretch to reach a shot and still shoot it rather than use a bridge or play it opposite handed. That’s all on me for getting lazy and not respecting the table. I earned that by being careless or lackadaisical in my pre-shot routine.

Since I like playing with wood shafts versus synthetic material, I’ve been interested in getting a Kielwood shaft. The choices are vast as there are a lot of brands to consider and of course, there is always contacting my cue maker to build me one. So I am looking for suggestions on the best Kielwood shaft. Here’s what I want……a flat faced big pin joint, 12.75 mm, extended pro taper (15-16”), ferrule and min. Wt. of 4 ozs. The weight is important because I want this shaft to match the weight of the original shafts of my cues. I could even go up a few grams but going lighter would be in the wrong direction. I realize that torrifying lightens the wood so 4 ozs. weight Is unusual as most Kielwood shafts weighing that much are usually piloted. I need a flat faced wood shaft sans any receiver that would add to the weight.

Thanks for sharing your views about Kielwood shafts. Again, I have no interest in CF shafts so please avoid comparing CF and Kielwood. Anyone know whom is known for making the heaviest Kielwood shafts? Could a 12.5 mm shaft weigh 4.0 ozs. or is that diameter too thin? I want to maintain the weight proportionality of my cue shafts and cue butts so really 4.0 ozs is the min. weight I need in a Kielwood shaft. Price ranges I’ve seen range from low 200 dollars to $500 for most Kielwood shafts. Anyone have recommendations about which brand Kielwood shaft and reasons why?

Count me in that same camp. I really prefer to play a wooden shaft and haven't had success with very low deflection or carbon fiber shafts.

My Hsunami is 29 inches, radial pin, 12.75mm and 3.9 ounces.

I imagine that a 30 inch shaft would bump that weight up a bit though if that was something you might want to consider…

 

[Bavafongoul]

Agree.

I've had mine for about 18 months now and absolutely love it.




Count me in that same camp. I really prefer to play a wooden shaft and haven't had success with very low deflection or carbon fiber shafts.

My Hsunami is 28 inches, radial pin, 12.75mm and 3.9 ounces.

I imagine that a 29 inch shaft would bump that weight up a bit though if that was something you might want to consider…

I think you are right……I’ve been checking and Richard Hsu looks like his KW shafts fit my requirements.
His shaft will cost $500 which is quite a bit more than what others charge. There aren’t any in my area to
try so spending 1/2 grand on the blind just seems a bit frivolous. I’m not sure if his shafts are that much
better than other KW shafts but his website guarantees building you the shaft the way you want but does
not allow specifying the weight of the shaft I’d want made. The weight of the KW shaft is a key requirement.

Maybe some others have experience with different KW shafts which are less expensive but perhaps come
close to what I’d like to get. CF shafts are common in my local pool hall but KW shafts aren’t. So it is not
easy to gain some experience playing with a KW shaft before buying one or ordering one built to my specs.

I might have to contact Bob and ask him to build me one. Heck for the price of the Tsunami shaft, I likely could
get him to build a KW shaft with a matching joint collar for one of my cues he made. But that is going to take
longer than the 12 to 14 weeks lead time for a new Richard Hsu 2.0 Tsunami shaft. I was hoping getting a KW
shaft wouldn’t involve a long calendar wait but sometimes getting exactly what you want can take awhile.

 

[David in FL]

I think you are right……I’ve been checking and Richard Hsu looks like his KW shafts fit my requirements.
His shaft will cost $500 which is quite a bit more than what others charge. There aren’t any in my area to
try so spending 1/2 grand on the blind just seems a bit frivolous. I’m not sure if his shafts are that much
better than other KW shafts but his website guarantees building you the shaft the way you want but does
not allow specifying the weight of the shaft I’d want made. The weight of the KW shaft is a key requirement.

Maybe some others have experience with different KW shafts which are less expensive but perhaps come
close to what I’d like to get. CF shafts are common in my local pool hall but KW shafts aren’t. So it is not
easy to gain some experience playing with a KW shaft before buying one or ordering one built to my specs.

I might have to contact Bob and ask him to build me one. Heck for the price of the Tsunami shaft, I likely could
get him to build a KW shaft with a matching joint collar for one of my cues he made. But that is going to take
longer than the 12 to 14 weeks lead time for a new Richard Hsu 2.0 Tsunami shaft. I was hoping getting a KW
shaft wouldn’t involve a long calendar wait but sometimes getting exactly what you want can take awhile.

I bought mine from a member here, sight unseen Simply because I wanted to try one.

For whatever it's worth, if it simply doesn't work for you, Richard's are in such high demand that I imagine you could sell it in a heartbeat especially given the pretty common specs that you're looking at.

 

[boogieman]

I had the V1 of the Hsunami shaft. I also have a Diveney shaft. Both are great but to me the Hsunami is a bit more whippy, not quite old school Meucci levels but whippier than Diveney. The Hsunami was good but I eventually sold it to a buddy. I much prefer the feel of the Diveny. It's stiffer, but not relentlessly so. Honestly if you're able to it would be beneficial to shoot with both before buying, they feel quite a bit different. Both are well made.

 

[mikemosconi]

Richard Hsu has a new 2.0 Kielwood shaft for order on his site. It is now a 4 month wait. A 29 inch 12.75 MM shaft weighs about 3.6 ounces as he quoted to me this week. I really do think that you would need to go to a 30 inch shaft at least 12.75 to get to 4 ounces on a Kielwood Tsunami 2.0- but ask Richard- he is very available for questions. The new 2.0 is darker in color bc it is flamed longer- so perhaps drier and lighter.

I have tried a friends keilwood - I think that it would be a nice alternative to CF- as I will not use CF, just like you. Many choices as to type of tip and ferrule combination. I would probably only buy from Richard Hsu. Why- his website shows how professional he is in his business dealings, he has been super responsive, his shafts cost a lot but will hold their value more than any other keilwood IMO, his reviews on the shafts are superb!

 

[Bavafongoul]

I had the V1 of the Hsunami shaft. I also have a Diveney shaft. Both are great but to me the Hsunami is a bit more whippy, not quite old school Meucci levels but whippier than Diveney. The Hsunami was good but I eventually sold it to a buddy. I much prefer the feel of the Diveny. It's stiffer, but not relentlessly so. Honestly if you're able to it would be beneficial to shoot with both before buying, they feel quite a bit different. Both are well made.

Thanks for your reply. It is exactly the type of information I was hoping to get. For example, I’ve read some high praise given to Jim Pierce KW shafts. Reviews by an actual player, current or previous KW shaft owner, gives me the greatest insight about KW shafts. I very much appreciate you bothering to distinguish your experience with KW shafts. It helps.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Richard Hsu has a new 2.0 Kielwood shaft for order on his site. It is now a 4 month wait. A 29 inch 12.75 MM shaft weighs about 3.6 ounces as he quoted to me this week. I really do think that you would need to go to a 30 inch shaft at least 12.75 to get to 4 ounces on a Kielwood Tsunami 2.0- but ask Richard- he is very available for questions. The new 2.0 is darker in color bc it is flamed longer- so perhaps drier and lighter.

I have tried a friends keilwood - I think that it would be a nice alternative to CF- as I will not use CF, just like you. Many choices as to type of tip and ferrule combination. I would probably only buy from Richard Hsu. Why- his website shows how professional he is in his business dealings, he has been super responsive, his shafts cost a lot but will hold their value more than any other keilwood IMO, his reviews on the shafts are superb!

He certainly commands nothing but the highest of praises from his customers. And we both know that high quality
typically costs more than average quality. Bottomline is a product with the best reputation is usually more expensive.

 

[muskyed]

I have previously posted that CF shafts and my pool game do not align well. After playing original maple shafts for way longer than most players, making the switch to CF is just too bothersome. I do not play enough pool competitively to make the transition and pool now is played purely for the satisfaction I derive from playing well. I do not need to play better to improve my game. I really just need to avoid stroke flaws that happen and I just miss a shot I could have, and all too often, should have easily pocketed. When I miss, it sometimes is the easiest shot imaginable. I overstretch to reach a shot and still shoot it rather than use a bridge or play it opposite handed. That’s all on me for getting lazy and not respecting the table. I earned that by being careless or lackadaisical in my pre-shot routine.

Since I like playing with wood shafts versus synthetic material, I’ve been interested in getting a Kielwood shaft. The choices are vast as there are a lot of brands to consider and of course, there is always contacting my cue maker to build me one. So I am looking for suggestions on the best Kielwood shaft. Here’s what I want……a flat faced big pin joint, 12.75 mm, extended pro taper (15-16”), ferrule and min. Wt. of 4 ozs. The weight is important because I want this shaft to match the weight of the original shafts of my cues. I could even go up a few grams but going lighter would be in the wrong direction. I realize that torrifying lightens the wood so 4 ozs. weight Is unusual as most Kielwood shafts weighing that much are usually piloted. I need a flat faced wood shaft sans any receiver that would add to the weight.

Thanks for sharing your views about Kielwood shafts. Again, I have no interest in CF shafts so please avoid comparing CF and Kielwood. Anyone know whom is known for making the heaviest Kielwood shafts? Could a 12.5 mm shaft weigh 4.0 ozs. or is that diameter too thin? I want to maintain the weight proportionality of my cue shafts and cue butts so really 4.0 ozs is the min. weight I need in a Kielwood shaft. Price ranges I’ve seen range from low 200 dollars to $500 for most Kielwood shafts. Anyone have recommendations about which brand Kielwood shaft and reasons why?

Not sure who sells what with what specs, but it is pretty easy for a cue maker or hobbyist with a cue lathe to add apx .3 oz to a big pin shaft. Check out my posting in the cuemaker forum from a couple weeks ago. I did this with two different shafts so that I could slightly move the ballance. One shaft was a 3/8"x10 that I drilled past the threads a bit then took a 3/8x10 tap and tapped it further down to insert a piece of 3/8x10 pin.
The other was a shaft for a radial pin, and as I didn't have a radial tap, I drilled and tapped for a piece of 5/16x14 pin. That was apx .35 oz.
Drilling and tapping for the piece of 5/16x14 pin was the easiest and safest. While I'm not a cuemaker, it was quite easy, so I would think any custom shaft maker could quite easily do this.

 

[Bavafongoul]

This probably sounds naive but I would have otherwise thought that to produce a KW that’s flat faced and the only
metal is a standard connecting big pin screw (3/8x10, radial or 3/8x11), the shaft maker’s challenge is to start with
wood that is heavier since torrified wood tends to be lighter. So you allow for the weight shrinkage to get a shaft
in the desired weight range. I dislike weight bolts in cues unless it’s headless, very light (7 grams) & the butt is cored.

Now there likely is more to this and my oversimplification may indeed be erroneous. Anyway, I think the trick is to sort
through your inventory & use a denser wood that’s aged. Then again, I’m not a cue maker so I don’t know that much.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

It might just be me because my grip is a bit tighter but I don’t like the way the hit feels with any LD shafts I have tried. I want good feedback from both the tip hitting the ball and the vibration of the cue afterwards and LD doesn’t give that same feel except on a center ball hit. There is a less defined forward and back force than with a regular shaft and more left/right due to the design of a LD and I can tell the difference in my shooting hand. Even though this next part is all in my head. The different feedback makes me feel like I have less control over the CB. It still goes where I want it to, but the feel is not what I prefer. I actually have slightly better speed control with the keilwood though(O1). for some reason. It feels like I have to hit just a little harder for the same result as with a regular maple. But that makes it seem easier to hit the slow controlled ones. Idk. That speed thing could be do to the weight difference since the keilwood probably is a little lighter. Maybe with a harder tip I’d be able to feel the hit more too. I’m in the group of people that says LD is going to make nobody better. But also think maybe LD can be beneficial for players at a higher level than most people.

To each their own. I’m pretty sure if you took 1 person and could split him/her into 2 new players and they had the same training for 6mos or a year one with a regular maple shaft and one with an LD there would be no difference in their games at the end of the training.

Does it have to be keilwood? last I checked Bob had 2 or 3 regular maple LD options available. He had mild and medium then the keilwood. Or something like that. He quoted me something like $200 for LD $250 for for better LD and I think my keilwood ran around $350. I might be slightly low on the prices. Might have been $200 on a reg.

You seem like a good guy Bava. And you also recommended Bob when I was looking for a builder. So I could send you over the O1 keilwood to try out. Just pay shipping. You can hold onto it for a couple months. Just please no microfiber sandpaper on it. The rings won’t match but it might fit your cue to try it out for a bit. It’s 12mm though. You seem pretty set on 12.5mm. .5mm is next to nothing and will be less deflection than a 12.5. I think he has some ready to go too. From the sounds of it they are all 12mm. But he could probably weigh them up for you. It only took a few weeks to get the cue back too.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Thank you for the thoughtfully composed reply and offer to test a KW shaft. Another forum member also offered me a
Richard Hsu shaft I could try. Bob is such a great person to discuss cue making that it’s a pleasure speaking with him.
I might take you up on the generous offer to try your 01 shaft. At this very moment, I’m gathering as much info as I can.

And when Owen is such a gifted a cue maker and I’ve used him, my fondness for Bob only increases. I’m going to call
him just so he can bust my chops about the miserable way the Yankees have been playing for the last four weeks.
But then I get to break his balls over the Royals so we get to beat each other up about our undying team allegiances.

Thank goodness for the All Star break to stop the slide……time to play the youngsters ,,,,,bring ‘em up from AAA…..forget about making any trades……invest in the future right now…..no long term contracts are involved
& 6 years of rookie contract control…..start with Spencer Jones (OF)…..Rod Arias (SS)……Clayton Beeter (RHP)…….by Sept…..Jasson Dominguez (OF) oblique injury….play the future in the present and it arrives faster.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Thank you for the thoughtfully composed reply and offer to test a KW shaft. Another forum member also offered me a
Richard Hsu shaft I could try. Bob is such a great person to discuss cue making that it’s a pleasure speaking with him.
I might take you up on the generous offer to try your 01 shaft. At this very moment, I’m gathering as much info as I can.

And when Owen is such a gifted a cue maker and I’ve used him, my fondness for Bob only increases. I’m going to call
him just so he can bust my chops about the miserable way the Yankees have been playing for the last four weeks.
But then I get to break his balls over the Royals so we get to beat each other up about our undying team allegiances.

Thank goodness for the All Star break to stop the slide……time to play the youngsters ,,,,,bring ‘em up from AAA…..forget about making any trades……invest in the future right now…..no long term contracts are involved
& 6 years of rookie contract control…..start with Spencer Jones (OF)…..Rod Arias (SS)……Clayton Beeter (RHP)…….by Sept…..Jasson Dominguez (OF) oblique injury….play the future in the present and it arrives faster.

I shot you over a pm

 

[dendweller]

Not sure who sells what with what specs, but it is pretty easy for a cue maker or hobbyist with a cue lathe to add apx .3 oz to a big pin shaft. Check out my posting in the cuemaker forum from a couple weeks ago. I did this with two different shafts so that I could slightly move the ballance. One shaft was a 3/8"x10 that I drilled past the threads a bit then took a 3/8x10 tap and tapped it further down to insert a piece of 3/8x10 pin.
The other was a shaft for a radial pin, and as I didn't have a radial tap, I drilled and tapped for a piece of 5/16x14 pin. That was apx .35 oz.
Drilling and tapping for the piece of 5/16x14 pin was the easiest and safest. While I'm not a cuemaker, it was quite easy, so I would think any custom shaft maker could quite easily do this.

I think the way you did it worked for you to get more forward weight in the cue but was not a whole lot different than adding that .3 oz on the butt side of the joint pin. I don't think it would help him with feeling like he was had a 4 oz shaft riding through his bridge hand.