Matching a new shaft to a finished cue.

[Zagiflyer]

Hello:

I'm still new to this and recently had to make a 2nd shaft for an existing cue for the first time. When I went to turn down the joint rings on the shaft to match the butt of the cue there was a high spot. I could get a nice flush fit about 3/4 of the way around the circumference but there was a ridge on the other 1/4. Obviously I couldn't sand and/or machine the joint together like I would with a new cue because it would alter the dimensions of the butt-joint and then the customer's original shaft wouldn't be flush.

I knocked the high spot down with a file and sanded a little to get it as close as I could. After finishing the joint area of the new shaft I wasn't happy with the fit so I turned the rings off and started over. I repeated the whole process a 2nd time and in the end the fit was better but not perfect. I ended up explaining to the customer about slight problems with concentricity and why it's easy to make a flush fit with a new cue because everything gets machined and sanded together but harder with a replacement shaft. I told the customer I did the best I could and they seemed happy with the fit but I really wasn't............I wanted it to be perfect.

Does anybody have any tips on how I can do this repair better in the future? Is it even possible to make a perfectly flush fit with a replacement shaft in all cases? Any advice would really be appreciated.

Thanks.

Ken Nelson

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Hello:

I'm still new to this and recently had to make a 2nd shaft for an existing cue for the first time. When I went to turn down the joint rings on the shaft to match the butt of the cue there was a high spot. I could get a nice flush fit about 3/4 of the way around the circumference but there was a ridge on the other 1/4. Obviously I couldn't sand and/or machine the joint together like I would with a new cue because it would alter the dimensions of the butt-joint and then the customer's original shaft wouldn't be flush.

I knocked the high spot down with a file and sanded a little to get it as close as I could. After finishing the joint area of the new shaft I wasn't happy with the fit so I turned the rings off and started over. I repeated the whole process a 2nd time and in the end the fit was better but not perfect. I ended up explaining to the customer about slight problems with concentricity and why it's easy to make a flush fit with a new cue because everything gets machined and sanded together but harder with a replacement shaft. I told the customer I did the best I could and they seemed happy with the fit but I really wasn't............I wanted it to be perfect.

Does anybody have any tips on how I can do this repair better in the future? Is it even possible to make a perfectly flush fit with a replacement shaft in all cases? Any advice would really be appreciated.

Thanks.

Ken Nelson

Did you check to see if the pin was concentric to the butt? The butt itself, may have been the problem. If the pin is not dead nuts, then the shaft has to be off by the same amount, to match it.

Tracy

 

[Zagiflyer]

Did you check to see if the pin was concentric to the butt? The butt itself, may have been the problem. If the pin is not dead nuts, then the shaft has to be off by the same amount, to match it.

Tracy

Hi Tracy:

Thanks for the reply. I'm guessing that that either the pin in the butt, my insert or a combination of both created the slight lack of concentricity. In the case of the butt there wouldn't really be much I could do anyway. I agree that if anything is off center the shaft has to me "tweaked" to fit, I'm wondering if anybody has any tips on how to do this. There must be other cue makers/repairmen who have had to build a new shaft to match a butt that wasn't totally concentric. I notice this when replacing ferrules that often the tennon is slightly off center and the furrule has a high spot after turning that can be corrected with some filing/sanding to make a flush seam. Unfortunately you don't have that luxury when matching a new shaft to a cue because you have to leave the butt untouched so the original shaft still fits.

Ken Nelson

 

[RSB-Refugee]

I notice this when replacing ferrules that often the tennon is slightly off center and the furrule has a high spot after turning that can be corrected with some filing/sanding to make a flush seam.

This makes me think, your lathe may need a little tweaking. If you install the ferrule oversized and get the shaft running true the ferrule should match-up, when you turn it. Are you cutting the ferrules to final size and then gluing them on?

Tracy

 

[rhncue]

This makes me think, your lathe may need a little tweaking. If you install the ferrule oversized and get the shaft running true the ferrule should match-up, when you turn it. Are you cutting the ferrules to final size and then gluing them on?

Tracy

It makes no difference if the pin is in the center (seldom) or if the insert is in the center (also seldom). What does have to run true is the last 1/8th inch of the joint. If you can't get the very end of the joint to run true then the shaft is going to have a high and low spot. With a four-jaw independent chuck it is very easy, if you don't have one you must shim the jaws of your lathe and if you still can't get it to run true then you need to take it to some one with the proper equipment.
Dick

 

[Zagiflyer]

Thanks for the information Dick and Tracy:

In the case of ferrules I don't have problems on my own shafts but when I get repair work I get some really bad stuff sometimes that's not round, etc. so I end up doing some sanding for a flush fit.

Dick, thanks for the advice about shimming the chuck to get the mating portion of the joint running true regardless of defects and non-concentric issues. I have a 3-jaw chuck on my cuesmith but I will experiment with shimming. I thought about this once before before I found out that the whole cuesmith is aluminum and it's hard to mount my magnetic base run-out gauge but I'll make a mounting and play with your idea.......very helpful, thank you.

Ken N.

 

[macguy]

Hello:

I'm still new to this and recently had to make a 2nd shaft for an existing cue for the first time. When I went to turn down the joint rings on the shaft to match the butt of the cue there was a high spot. I could get a nice flush fit about 3/4 of the way around the circumference but there was a ridge on the other 1/4. Obviously I couldn't sand and/or machine the joint together like I would with a new cue because it would alter the dimensions of the butt-joint and then the customer's original shaft wouldn't be flush.

I knocked the high spot down with a file and sanded a little to get it as close as I could. After finishing the joint area of the new shaft I wasn't happy with the fit so I turned the rings off and started over. I repeated the whole process a 2nd time and in the end the fit was better but not perfect. I ended up explaining to the customer about slight problems with concentricity and why it's easy to make a flush fit with a new cue because everything gets machined and sanded together but harder with a replacement shaft. I told the customer I did the best I could and they seemed happy with the fit but I really wasn't............I wanted it to be perfect.

Does anybody have any tips on how I can do this repair better in the future? Is it even possible to make a perfectly flush fit with a replacement shaft in all cases? Any advice would really be appreciated.

Thanks.

Ken Nelson

I put the butt in the lathe and indicate in the joint to zero or as close as I can and put on the shaft an cut it almost to the joint within a few thousands then do a final sanding on the shaft joint, (Not while on the cue) till it indicates out at the same or even a little under the cue joint to make up for the finish I will be spraying on. A trick you can use also is to make a dummy joint matching the original shaft (something similar to a joint protector), and use it to make the match on the new shaft if you don't have a lathe large enough to put a butt through.

 

[hadjcues]

Hello:

I'm still new to this and recently had to make a 2nd shaft for an existing cue for the first time. When I went to turn down the joint rings on the shaft to match the butt of the cue there was a high spot. I could get a nice flush fit about 3/4 of the way around the circumference but there was a ridge on the other 1/4. Obviously I couldn't sand and/or machine the joint together like I would with a new cue because it would alter the dimensions of the butt-joint and then the customer's original shaft wouldn't be flush.

I knocked the high spot down with a file and sanded a little to get it as close as I could. After finishing the joint area of the new shaft I wasn't happy with the fit so I turned the rings off and started over. I repeated the whole process a 2nd time and in the end the fit was better but not perfect. I ended up explaining to the customer about slight problems with concentricity and why it's easy to make a flush fit with a new cue because everything gets machined and sanded together but harder with a replacement shaft. I told the customer I did the best I could and they seemed happy with the fit but I really wasn't............I wanted it to be perfect.

Does anybody have any tips on how I can do this repair better in the future? Is it even possible to make a perfectly flush fit with a replacement shaft in all cases? Any advice would really be appreciated.

Thanks.

Ken Nelson

One way to deal with your problem is try makin' an insert concentric with the cues joint pin , depends on what pin type is there... cut it between centers then put the insert in the shaft. That would insure that even the if the pin is not straight, the shaft and butt would be inline when joined together.

 

[Sheldon]

I put the butt in the lathe and indicate in the joint to zero or as close as I can and put on the shaft an cut it almost to the joint within a few thousands then do a final sanding on the shaft joint, (Not while on the cue) till it indicates out at the same or even a little under the cue joint to make up for the finish I will be spraying on. A trick you can use also is to make a dummy joint matching the original shaft (something similar to a joint protector), and use it to make the match on the new shaft if you don't have a lathe large enough to put a butt through.

That is the easiest, and fastest way. Just make sure you face everything off to where you want it before you cut the rings down. Facing afterwards will throw it back off.

 

[Cue Crazy]

On a Butt that's not true to the pin, I run the joint out of My headstock jaws also, and indicate the OD. Pretty much the same way as already explained. I use dummies sometimes also. And use them for all kinds of things. When finishing the shaft I also found that a delrin ring works good to keep the finish off the faces, because It won't stick to It as easy, and seals the face off, so finish can't seep through. Guess It does have it's uses.

The last 2 cues I built, I centered everything to the pin from the get go, so they match up alot easier for me when I have to make an extra shaft. That method has worked the best for me so far, and everthing rolls true afterwards. It has even prompted me to consider going about assembly in a different way earlier on.

Greg

 

[Cue Crazy]

That is the easiest, and fastest way. Just make sure you face everything off to where you want it before you cut the rings down. Facing afterwards will throw it back off.

That's true, Been there Myself before, until trial and error showed me what I was doing wrong. Another hard earned lesson