Men of the Game

[HittMan]

Men of the game

I’m interested in assembling the respected people of our game. This person may or may not be a male, I use the term in the human sense. This may or may not be a great player, but he (there it is again) is a benefactor of the game and probably was a good player at one time (certainly bitten by the bug). I suspect every community in the country has at least one. I’m hoping to find fresh blood…someone who is able to view old problems with new eyes. I see a lot of posts on every forum asking about the greatest players in the game…of all time…etc. I’m looking for the people who exemplify, to whom others look for guidance because they have a depth of knowledge of the game and have exhibited reasonable judgment…a patron of the game…someone who has balanced his love for the game with the rest of his life. Is there someone in your community you would like to honor by submitting their name as a person of influence?

I plan to contact these people…I will not pester or disturb anyone who doesn’t want to talk to me. Please do not post any telephone numbers or e-mail addresses. I will contact you for more information through the PM system.

I think a short descriptive reason for putting this person forward would be appropriate. If anyone would like to second a nomination…feel free. Please don’t publicly post detractive material about anyone…simply put it in a PM to me if you can’t be silent about a nomination.

Thanks,
Hittman

 

[henho]

Couldn't resist; are u Thorsten Hohmann?

edit: read some of ur posts, guess not.

Can you tell us more about why you are collecting this information? Is this for an upcoming book?

 

[HittMan]

Rationale...rather long

I'm not Thorsten Hohmann...and for the record I never have been.

I suppose I should have included rationale...I thought this over (believe it or not) and convinced myself this post could entice participation and avoid getting hung up over extraneous issue...It COULD work.

Well it was a dismal failure...so here's the deal...maybe not in order of importance.

I have been keeping a list of contacts (as many players do) of stakehorses, pool detectives, players, friends, games, etc, etc for quite a few years (read 20+). Over the last few years, several of those contacts have died or otherwise been lost to me...so I began considering different ways to make new pool acquaintances with common significant interests and ethics. This was the beginning of my reason to join this and a few other forums. In the process, I learned there were a lot of people who shared my exasperation with the state of the game, pointed up most recently by the meteoric rise of "poker" into the limelight of American (even international) interest. I became jealous because the love of my life had been snubbed...so I began plotting how to defend her honor.

I have thought for several years that the "front guys" in pool have just about killed themselves (and with them, the game) through petty larceny and unbridled greed. I also know there exists a backbone of "stand-up guys" who, if brought together, would command enough respect and project a level of dignity/honesty sufficient to engender the trust of both the players and potential sponsors. Not incidentally, I suspect there is a pretty sporty profit potential for the cracking of this nut. The participation numbers and the advertising dollars are grossly out of whack...I would like to provide (build) a vehicle to bring them together and get a fair slice of the flow...I consider this a classic arbitrage play. But to do this, I know I need help.

This seemed a daunting, but worthy task. So, I then had to committ to the job of contacting the "nominations" and building a core group. I began with the idea of forming a geographically based group (via e-mail) that might resemble a think tank with the stated purpose of growing interest and participation in the noble game of pocket billiards (I do not intentionally leave out carom, I simply don't know anything about the game). I am hoping to entice reasonably complete geographical coverage of the continental US by state or in some instances county. I am prepared to foot the bill to establish a legal and political entity (the form of which can be determined by the group) that will practice advocacy for the game. I will not pretend that I don't have a pet project or two...I definitely do...however I am also able to work within a group and recognize better ideas and resolutions can come from synergistic relationships...if the members of the group are like minded in their goals, comittment and ethics. The latter of these qualities being quite important to me.

Without sounding too trite, I cannot leave out that I've spent most of my life playing and promoting the game to a higher standard. Now that I have gotten a little older (and hopefully wiser), I would like to do something for the game that might outlive me. I know we hear this on these forums with regularity and there is no way to judge the truth of the claim so each must decide for themselves...thus my favorite by-line...just my opinion...you be the judge.

So...let's consider what you have to lose by posting "nominations". If you have a question about whether the person you want to recommend will be interested, simply ask him and follow his wishes. If you have a question whether you think this is a good idea, simply place your nomination (provide me enough rope to hang myself) and let the outcome be the judge. I have been in communication with Mike Howerton (HousePro) about this and we have discussed setting up a separate section to handle the traffic. I wanted to test the level of interest before splitting off from the main group...no reason to begin a public political discussion with myself.

I have contacted a few folks on my list already...still have a few more to go. I can't help but think the old addage..."nothing ventured, nothing gained", applies quite nicely here. Just my opinion...you be the judge.

Thanks,
Andy Bruce
(Hittman)

 

[Snapshot9]

Andy ...

The first flaw in your idealogy is that you stated people
somewhat successful (in playing and promoting Pool) as well
as successful in other parts of their life, like their occupation.

To be frank, most people that would be nominated for this that
are successful in their occupation or other areas are just going
to be too busy to devote time to your personal goal. They may
love the sport or enjoy it a lot, but it is not the big priority in
their lives.

For example, I first thought of nominating my brother, Knute,
for your group because he has played Pool all his life off and on,
and is a real good player today even. He is a successful Attorney
here in town for over 30 years, and plays in leagues on his
'attorney' team. He won the snooker championship one year
when went to KU, played many money games, gambled with
players like Greg Stevens in old days, and still enjoys Pool today.
He advertises at one Pool room here in town with a banner, and
has won 'Judges Day tournament' (special annual tournament for
legal, attorneys, and judges) at Rumors here about 4 or 5 times.
But, he is a busy attorney with many interests, and he would not
devote the time to a purpose such as yours. I think the same
would be true for many more like him.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I think what would work better would be a form which could be given to these people.

The form would explain why you wanted their contact information, then would maybe have a few questions on it, and then a space for contact information.

Then people like myself could give these forms to the players you seek, and they could fill it out and mail it to you if they decided it would be a good thing for them.

I would feel more comfortable doing something like that.

If you want a list of players willing to play for money, say so or ask if they would like to be included in such a list (and would like to receive back such a list).

Or if your only interest is in forming a new organization, then say that. But may want to state some goals of this new organization. Then these people will know what they are getting themselves into.

FYI - Those who I know that fit your description are NOT on the internet. Some do not know how to use a computer. Others may know how to use a computer, but are playing pool every night, so don't have time.

But someone like myself could give these people your form and description of why you wanted their name/contact info...

 

[HittMan]

clarification

The first flaw in your idealogy is that you stated people
somewhat successful (in playing and promoting Pool) as well
as successful in other parts of their life, like their occupation.

Hello Snapshot,
I didn't mean to imply I thought promoting pool was important, just balanced in their lives and I really didn't want to come off as an ideology...what I was hoping to do is:
State a goal - build a group to promote the game.
State a few preferences - balanced members, hopefully successful in other areas of their lives, common ethics, etc.
State a problem - Pool has not earned its rightful spot due to many reasons.
State a method - geopraphically divide the membership to give a semblance of representation, think tank format, nominations, polling of members for ideas and problem/solution type thinking, etc.

To be frank, most people that would be nominated for this that are successful in their occupation or other areas are just going
to be too busy to devote time to your personal goal. They may love the sport or enjoy it a lot, but it is not the big priority in their lives.

I am trying to find people who might make this their "personal goal" as well. In so doing, I dangled the carrot of the "arbitrage play" as a stated reward...as it is generally agreed that the game lacks the leadership required to bring it into focus.
I completely understand the time issue...I did not have time until lately...there is nothing I can say to overcome this...folks that have little or no free time will not likely participate for priority reasons.

For example, I first thought of nominating my brother, Knute, for your group because he has played Pool all his life off and on,
and is a real good player today even. He is a successful Attorney here in town for over 30 years, and plays in leagues on his 'attorney' team. He won the snooker championship one year when went to KU, played many money games, gambled with players like Greg Stevens in old days, and still enjoys Pool today. He advertises at one Pool room here in town with a banner, and
has won 'Judges Day tournament' (special annual tournament for legal, attorneys, and judges) at Rumors here about 4 or 5 times. But, he is a busy attorney with many interests, and he would not devote the time to a purpose such as yours. I think the same would be true for many more like him.

Frankly, your brother sounds exactly like the kind of person I'm trying to find. I'm a CPA, sorta' retired, but I still don't have any interest in wasting time (mine or anyones), I could be playing pool (or building cues). I suspect it will take somewhere near a year to get the geographic group formed (it could happen sooner, of course). During that time, we could work on conceptual and fundamental issues in an e-mail forum context. The next step is to decide on format, target sponsorships and determine viability by presenting advertisers a reasonable plan for reaching their markets. As I have already mentioned the participation numbers are there and the advertising dollars are not, this spells opportunity. Its not greatly different from sitting on the board of a corporation...maybe that's exactly what it will turn out to be. The idea is to give potential advertisers a consolidated group of businessmen (much like themselves) to do business with.
Just for fun, why don't you send him this URL and let him read it. And, I'm going to drop you a PM with my contact information and a short list of initial considerations as I see them. Maybe you wouldn't mind passing them along to him.
Thanks for your input.

Hittman

 

[HittMan]

I think what would work better would be a form which could be given to these people.
The form would explain why you wanted their contact information, then would maybe have a few questions on it, and then a space for contact information.

Hello Billy_Bob,
It probably doesn't appear that I have given this much thought, but, I actually thought I had. I am hoping that people, like yourself, will do this part of the legwork for me. I would feel honored if someone came to me about a nomination like this. Maybe the best way to do it is to mention this thread to (or print it for) the person and ask if he/she minds being recommended and later contacted.

Then people like myself could give these forms to the players you seek, and they could fill it out and mail it to you if they decided it would be a good thing for them.
I would feel more comfortable doing something like that.

I understand your hesitation...I do not want to bother anyone if they are not interested. I also don't want to waste my time.

If you want a list of players willing to play for money, say so or ask if they would like to be included in such a list (and would like to receive back such a list).
Or if your only interest is in forming a new organization, then say that. But may want to state some goals of this new organization. Then these people will know what they are getting themselves into.

I am not looking for players right now...I am looking for balanced, respectable people vitally interested in the game who may be willing to try to help me provide a service to the game, the players and, if they choose to participate later, themselves. I have a profit motive...I have seen excellent numbers indicating high participation levels for this game in the groups aged 26 to 39 AND 40 to 49. These are the markets advertisers want to tap...big advertisers with lots of advertising dollars. I am trying to put together:
1) advertisers and our numbers, they want the opportunity to convice us we cannot live without their products
2) players and the payoff for their long hours of dedication and practice, they want to be able to compete for enough money to survive.
3) fans and matches, they want to see the good, honest matches.
4) participants of this group and an opportunity

FYI - Those who I know that fit your description are NOT on the internet. Some do not know how to use a computer. Others may know how to use a computer, but are playing pool every night, so don't have time.
But someone like myself could give these people your form and description of why you wanted their name/contact info...

I don't want to sound rude but this is the 21st century. If a person doesn't have access to a computer or the ability to carve out sufficient time to use it, then they are not who I'm looking for...for a variety of reasons. Hopefully they can earn some of the prize money.

Thanks for the input.

Hittman

 

[AuntyDan]

Men of the game
I’m interested in assembling the respected people of our game. This person may or may not be a male, I use the term in the human sense.

I suggest you change the Subject line to "Mensch of the game", that works much better.

 

[Tbeaux]

Given your 20 year old little black book you probably already have these.
Peg Leadman and any member past/present of the board of the WPBA.
Allen Hopkins,Charlie Williams,anybody who has run a SUCCESSFUL tour or series of events (ex. Bob and Eydie Romano),anybody who has emersed themself in the billiards culture without much in the way of reward (ex. Mike Howerton). Are these the kind of people you're looking for?

Terry