MIke Sigel's perfect stroke
- Thread starter surffisher2a
- Start date
Here's one of my unorthodox teaching methods, Patrick: When a player has a problem twisting the cue, I ask them to take the thumb and index finger completely off of the grip, so they are gripping with the last three fingers, and to shoot only that way for a certain period of time that I designate. It might be a few minutes. It might be a few hours. It might be an entire day. Depends on the player. From the first shot, the cue instantly goes straight in every case that I've seen. That's because the thumb and index fingers are the twisting fingers. It feels awful for the player but it works.
Then I gradually allow them to put those fingers back on the cue but in a different way and with attention to the way certain things feel.
Most instructors would just address the twisting motion while allowing the player to grip the cue the same way. The player will revert back if they do it that way because their old grip is still there.
Then I gradually allow them to put those fingers back on the cue but in a different way and with attention to the way certain things feel.
Most instructors would just address the twisting motion while allowing the player to grip the cue the same way. The player will revert back if they do it that way because their old grip is still there.
1) Take a student who has struggled with follow for a long, long time, using a conventional (high) hand bridge and stroke.
2) Setup the 9-ball shot as diagrammed above.
3) Tell student to bridge and practice stroke at center cue ball, take a nice long backstroke on the final stroke, then, with the final forward stroke only--because they're using the hand bridge as a natural fulcrum--to slightly lower the cue butt so that the cue ball is struck above center, using a soft or medium-soft stroke.
4) Watch the cue ball follow the 9-ball straight into the far corner pocket, usually on the first, sometimes on the second attempt.
5) Provide student with Kleenex to wipe away their tears of gratitude.
6) Post same at AZ.
7) Watch as non-teachers criticize you and/or as other teachers say "Wrong!" without ever having attempting this upward stroke on a pool table, to test what I'm saying for themselves or telling you why this method that saves people years of agony with follow shots is "wrong".
Why not fix the problem instead of putting a Band-aid on it? Its obvious that they are not using a "Conventional Stroke" or they would be able to execute this basic shot of "following the ball" There are underlying issues here that need to be fixed and if you are not fixing them the right way you are doing your students a great disservice.
There are no underlying issues if someone (as I wrote about above) hits beautiful draw, center and side but struggles with follow. There's a problem with their follow technique only.
Since they can now hit perfect follow shots for the rest of their life, the problem has been fixed, the very definition of not a Band-aid.
When you start listening to well-founded criticism of your ideas we might have something to "collaborate" about.
And as yet another example of you opining about things you're ignorant of: you obviously have no idea how I play.
pj <- forgot to say "respectfully"
chgo
This is the very definition of not knowing what you're saying - or what you're teaching. I sincerely hope the student(s) you told to "stroke upward" for follow have found a real instructor.
pj
chgo
I said "play far better".
You don't collaborate well, but I'm again offering you the chance to do so--or even to offer "well-founded criticism" rather than sarcasm and insults. They're beneath you, you're far too intelligent for this nonsense.
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And as predicted in an earlier post by me, you criticized without giving a why, or indeed any pool facts or substance at all.
I know you don't teach, but if you did, you'd likely tell your student to "practice good follow technique for two hours daily for six months". The upward stroke by contrast, cures the follow stroke in under 60 seconds, permanently. Fixing student concerns promptly is what real instructors do.
I challenge you to both experiment as I've diagrammed and to be respectful to other people, without sarcasm.
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Matt,
This here that you wrote 3) Tell student to bridge and practice stroke at center cue ball, take a nice long backstroke on the final stroke, then, with the final forward stroke only--because they're using the hand bridge as a natural fulcrum--to slightly lower the cue butt so that the cue ball is struck above center, using a soft or medium-soft stroke. Is a BAND-AID and has its own set of problems.
Try this instead.
Have the student with a level (as possible) cue raise the tip of their cue (1 or 2 tips) on the cue ball when addressing it for their warm up strokes (that is where we confirm we are hitting the cue ball in the right place) then have them strike the cue ball and watch the cue ball follow the object ball down the table. If they can't do that and can do what you stated above then there is an underlying problem that you are not seeing in your analysis of the stroke.
Having a player take 2 or 3 warm up strokes and then on the final stroke drop the elbow to raise the tip is not correct, it sends mixed signals to the brain and causes confusion.
This here that you wrote 3) Tell student to bridge and practice stroke at center cue ball, take a nice long backstroke on the final stroke, then, with the final forward stroke only--because they're using the hand bridge as a natural fulcrum--to slightly lower the cue butt so that the cue ball is struck above center, using a soft or medium-soft stroke. Is a BAND-AID and has its own set of problems.
Try this instead.
Have the student with a level (as possible) cue raise the tip of their cue (1 or 2 tips) on the cue ball when addressing it for their warm up strokes (that is where we confirm we are hitting the cue ball in the right place) then have them strike the cue ball and watch the cue ball follow the object ball down the table. If they can't do that and can do what you stated above then there is an underlying problem that you are not seeing in your analysis of the stroke.
Having a player take 2 or 3 warm up strokes and then on the final stroke drop the elbow to raise the tip is not correct, it sends mixed signals to the brain and causes confusion.
Having a player take 2 or 3 warm up strokes and then on the final stroke drop the elbow to raise the tip is not correct, it sends mixed signals to the brain and causes confusion.
It's not causing confusion in actual lessons/group clinics. It's instead causing the cue ball to follow into the corner pocket ten out of ten times. Have your students who are struggling with follow using the conventional high bridge method try it both ways, ten times each. Also, the method makes it quite easy to control speed of the cue ball.
I appreciate your kind input, however, I'm not sharing theory--I'm sharing what I've seen work for many students, in person. I'm sure you're aware that many pro players stroke to the base of the cue ball with their warm-up strokes, before adjusting a final backward and/or forward stroke.
It's not causing confusion in actual lessons/group clinics. It's instead causing the cue ball to follow into the corner pocket ten out of ten times. Have your students who are struggling with follow using the conventional high bridge method try it both ways, ten times each. Also, the method makes it quite easy to control speed of the cue ball.
I appreciate your kind input, however, I'm not sharing theory--I'm sharing what I've seen work for many students, in person. I'm sure you're aware that many pro players stroke to the base of the cue ball with their warm-up strokes, before adjusting a final backward and/or forward stroke.
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How can it be level if its resting on your bridge hand..the only way to have a dead level stroke is to lay it on the table and push it at the bumper
It's doable, but you have to be in a spot on a 9 ft table where the cushion isn't interfering, like along the diagonal. Another way to shoot level is when using top spin where the cue tip is at a level height with the cushion. The bridge hand can easily adapt it's height. There may be a slight shoulder drop involved to keep the cue level as the arm pushes through. Another way to do it is to roll the grip hand to keep the cue level.How can it be level if its resting on your bridge hand..the only way to have a dead level stroke is to lay it on the table and push it at the bumper
It can be close to level, but exactly level depends on the table, I think. Cushion noses are around 1 1/2", so the rail surface (a little up from there) can easily be above the 1 11/16" miscue limit - especially hitting right on the tip's edge.
pj
chgo
Ok, thats correct... but then your stroke would look quite weird, I would imagine..?I mean every one raises the butt end of the cue to some extent on the final backswing.You would have to imply a sort of a hinge movement a la Chris Melling..?
That's true about the back swing, however, it's the forward motion that counts when it comes to a level stroke, because as you know, it's all about the position of the pool cue at impact, which is affected by it's motion towards impact rather than away. How you take the cue away doesn't necessarily dictate how you move it forward.
This reminds me of the prescribed cue action from snooker coach Del Hill which he calls the "drive" (as opposed to a pendulum style) in which the elbow often drops. He claims that it's beneficial to start at a downward angle on most shots since the upward slope of the backswing leads to a corresponding down and forward "landing" (he uses the analogy of a plane landing). He explains that the downward angle enables the cue to finish somewhat level at stroke completion. I realize that Sigel employed a similar technique, dropping the elbow on most shots which is why I use the example.