Need an answer to a jump shot question?

[Snapshot9]

Although I have played for over 40 years, and have some accomplishments in the sport, I have wondered, pondered, and concentrated on the mechanix of jump shots. I am only 5'7" tall, and jump shots are a little more difficult for me than someone that is taller (right angle and stroke and reaching sometimes).

I use the regular method of jumping and not the dart method.

I did not really buy a jump stick until about 6 years ago, and I got a Frog. I practiced and the first time I used it in a money match ($200 sets), I made
6 out of 7 jump shots left to me by my opponent.

I don't have the Frog anymore, and I saw another one that I liked, that is lighter, 8 ozs., so I bought a Scorpion jump stick. The 2 are comparable, but the Scorpion is lighter and a better feel though. I might add that I would have a tendency to stroke harder rather than lighter.

Although I have no problem getting over a ball or 2, I am having an accuracy problem with the Scorpion (going to the side some and not quite on target).

I got perturbed last Friday night when playing a couple of small money matches, and decided to just use my regular stick, which is a Shurtz, 20 oz., with a Hercules laminated tip on it to jump the ball. To make a long story short, I made all 4 of the jump shots that my opponents left for me, even one where I had to jump 2 balls and cut the object ball into the side pocket with the object ball 6-7 inches from the side rail and pocket.

Yes, I have noticed that the Frog and my regular stick are heavier, and that they both, I think, do not have as hard a tip as the Scorpion jumpstick, and I have tried to perfect my jumpstroke with the Scorpion, but still have a problem with accuracy somewhat.

I would like to get some opinions about this situation, and perhaps some recommendations for correcting my accuracy with the Scorpion. I do like the Scorpion jumpstick and how it feels though, and is a good buy in my opinion.

 

[Billy_Bob]

What are the differences in the tips?

What type? Phenolic, leather, etc.

Hardness?

Radius? (Dime, nickel, quarter)

I don't know if these would make a difference in accuracy or not, but I'm learning and it would be interesting to know the specs of the tip(s) you can shoot accurately with and the specs of the tip you are having trouble with.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Although I have played for over 40 years, and have some accomplishments in the sport, I have wondered, pondered, and concentrated on the mechanix of jump shots. I am only 5'7" tall, and jump shots are a little more difficult for me than someone that is taller (right angle and stroke and reaching sometimes).

I use the regular method of jumping and not the dart method.

I did not really buy a jump stick until about 6 years ago, and I got a Frog. I practiced and the first time I used it in a money match ($200 sets), I made
6 out of 7 jump shots left to me by my opponent.

I don't have the Frog anymore, and I saw another one that I liked, that is lighter, 8 ozs., so I bought a Scorpion jump stick. The 2 are comparable, but the Scorpion is lighter and a better feel though. I might add that I would have a tendency to stroke harder rather than lighter.

Although I have no problem getting over a ball or 2, I am having an accuracy problem with the Scorpion (going to the side some and not quite on target).

I got perturbed last Friday night when playing a couple of small money matches, and decided to just use my regular stick, which is a Shurtz, 20 oz., with a Hercules laminated tip on it to jump the ball. To make a long story short, I made all 4 of the jump shots that my opponents left for me, even one where I had to jump 2 balls and cut the object ball into the side pocket with the object ball 6-7 inches from the side rail and pocket.

Yes, I have noticed that the Frog and my regular stick are heavier, and that they both, I think, do not have as hard a tip as the Scorpion jumpstick, and I have tried to perfect my jumpstroke with the Scorpion, but still have a problem with accuracy somewhat.

I would like to get some opinions about this situation, and perhaps some recommendations for correcting my accuracy with the Scorpion. I do like the Scorpion jumpstick and how it feels though, and is a good buy in my opinion.

Honestly, it really sounds like your getting that jump-cue out every time you're hooked and not frozen. Whenever you jump, you will ALWAYS lose a little (sometimes a lot) in accuracy, no matter which jump cue you use. Anybody who tells you differently is either trying to sell you something or fooling themselves. The fact is, there's a sliding scale of accuracy depending on the amount of height needed to attain a legal jump. If you have to jump over a full ball that's near by, be thankful you got a legal hit. If you're jumping over a 1/4 ball and the object ball is a hanger, you should expect no less than another shot.

The higher you jump, the more difficult it is to keep your body properly aligned. This could easily be the cause of side-spin which at this angle, will inevitably cause a masse. Personally, I'm very selective about when I jump and will only jump when I either know I should pocket the ball or when I have no other choice. On the otherhand, I rely heavily on my kicking game and see jump-shots as flash without thought for the cash. At least in kicking, you can control angle of approach and speed which are the essential ingredients to safety play.

My suggestion to you is to be selective when jumping. Understand that the majority of professional players out there cannot make any jump-shot given to them. I have yet to see Efren Reyes even use a jump-cue and his 9-ball game is considered among the best in the world. Avoid equipment changes. The fact is, all jump shots are center-ball hits so tip or cue is going to make a minimal difference. The weight of the cue is the only significant variable because this will affect height. Beyond that, your accuracy will rest in your ability to hit the center of the cue-ball and how well you aligned yourself to the shot.

I hope this helps. Sorry if I couldn't provide a quick-fix.

 

[scottycoyote]

not tryin to hijack this thread but i just got a sledgehammer the other day and ive had a little practice with it. I can jump pretty well with it, alot better than i could with my cue.....but i have a shot that i have to stretch out a little bit for, i cant jump very well, vs when the ball is closer to the rail and i can setup normally for it. What am i doing wrong or is that just the nature of jumping.

 

[g monster]

.

My suggestion to you is to be selective when jumping. Understand that the majority of professional players out there cannot make any jump-shot given to them. I have yet to see Efren Reyes even use a jump-cue and his 9-ball game is considered among the best in the world. Avoid equipment changes. The fact is, all jump shots are center-ball hits so tip or cue is going to make a minimal difference. The weight of the cue is the only significant variable because this will affect height. Beyond that, your accuracy will rest in your ability to hit the center of the cue-ball and how well you aligned yourself to the shot.


I would have to toatally disagree with you here. I have personally seen Efren play a jump shot in a tournament (last year at the UPA tourny here in LA). Also, Mike Davis has a pretty strong jump game as well as Fong Pang Chao and they both can make jump shot with great accuracy.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

.

My suggestion to you is to be selective when jumping. Understand that the majority of professional players out there cannot make any jump-shot given to them. I have yet to see Efren Reyes even use a jump-cue and his 9-ball game is considered among the best in the world. Avoid equipment changes. The fact is, all jump shots are center-ball hits so tip or cue is going to make a minimal difference. The weight of the cue is the only significant variable because this will affect height. Beyond that, your accuracy will rest in your ability to hit the center of the cue-ball and how well you aligned yourself to the shot.


I would have to toatally disagree with you here. I have personally seen Efren play a jump shot in a tournament (last year at the UPA tourny here in LA). Also, Mike Davis has a pretty strong jump game as well as Fong Pang Chao and they both can make jump shot with great accuracy.

You saw Efren make a jump shot a year ago and suddenly my point is refuted? Actually, I think you made my point. Besides, I'm not saying they'll NEVER jump, my point is that they're very selective about jumping. You don't see any of these guys with their jump cues right by their side, ready to use it whenever safe. In fact, Reyes' kicking game is regarded as the best in the world and you'll see him kick far more often than jump. Anyway, what I was trying to get at (but apparently you're in argue-mode) is that the majority of amateur players using a jump cue, use it too often. When you jump, you're set within rather specfic parameters. You must hit the ball a certain speed and you cannot use very much spin (although it is possible, you add risk to the shot). When kicking, you have many more options. Now, that isn't to say that kicking is ALWAYS the answer. On the contrary, sometimes jumping is the correct approach but only when pocketing the ball is expected or your options are limited.


Jude M. Rosenstock

 

[Snapshot9]

Tips

My tips are pretty much as they were put on, nickel. The Frog was leather, and softer than the Scorpion tip, which I believe is phenolic (it is harder for sure and darker in color), my regular cue has a medium hard Hercules laminated leather tip. I never vary my tip sizes (dime vs. nickel) between the cues I use, other than my regular cue is about a 12.75 in lieu of a 13 mm.

Good question though, and I will go to the official Scorpion web site and find out exactly what tip is on their Jumpcue, I believe it is proprietary. I have noticed I can jump over a ball better (closer) than with the Frog, maybe because of a harder tip, but that might also be why I am getting some side squirt. The Frog was 46" long, about 13.5 oz. and the Scorpion is 41.25" long, 8.5 oz.. I think the Frog had a Le Pro tip because I remember being surprised by that in Vegas when I bought it from Robin Dodson.

What are the differences in the tips?

What type? Phenolic, leather, etc.

Hardness?

Radius? (Dime, nickel, quarter)

I don't know if these would make a difference in accuracy or not, but I'm learning and it would be interesting to know the specs of the tip(s) you can shoot accurately with and the specs of the tip you are having trouble with.

 

[Billy_Bob]

My tips are pretty much as they were put on, nickel. The Frog was leather, and softer than the Scorpion tip, which I believe is phenolic (it is harder for sure and darker in color), my regular cue has a medium hard Hercules laminated leather tip....

I just read that the Scorpion jump cue has a proprietary "super hard" leather tip.

I got a Bunjee jump cue which came with a phenolic tip which had an odd shape. I emailed Bunjee asking if this was the shape it should have. They said that was just the way it came off the machine and that they left it up to the purchaser to shape the tip to their liking. But that they recommended a dime shape.

I have asked about this and no one seems to know anything about what shape a jump cue tip *should* have.

Maybe the traditional jump method works better with a regular hard/medium tip nickel or quarter shaped and the dart method works better with a super hard/phenolic dime shaped tip??? I don't know.

Anyone experiment with this at all?

FYI you can cut PVC in half and use with 220 grit sandpaper to make accurate shaping tools. Sizes....

Dime (1/2")
Nickel (3/4")
Quarter (1")

Or similar shaping tools here for dime/nickel only...
(Bottom of page.)
http://playpool.com/store/shop.php

 

[fxskater]

You saw Efren make a jump shot a year ago and suddenly my point is refuted? Actually, I think you made my point. Besides, I'm not saying they'll NEVER jump, my point is that they're very selective about jumping. You don't see any of these guys with their jump cues right by their side, ready to use it whenever safe. In fact, Reyes' kicking game is regarded as the best in the world and you'll see him kick far more often than jump. Anyway, what I was trying to get at (but apparently you're in argue-mode) is that the majority of amateur players using a jump cue, use it too often. When you jump, you're set within rather specfic parameters. You must hit the ball a certain speed and you cannot use very much spin (although it is possible, you add risk to the shot). When kicking, you have many more options. Now, that isn't to say that kicking is ALWAYS the answer. On the contrary, sometimes jumping is the correct approach but only when pocketing the ball is expected or your options are limited.


Jude M. Rosenstock

I 100% agree with you on this. People over use Jump shots. I have a jump cue and am fairly proficient with it, even to the point of being able to control jump draws fairly well, but most the time the jumper stays in the bag. I don't fit into the catergory your talking about, but i see lots that do. I wouldn't say that about amateur players only though. I can think of one person that will go for a jump from 3 inches away or 3 feet away from the obstructing ball, just about every time he is hooked. He is an A+ player and honestly makes probably 75% of them, so for him although he is jump happy, it works. I was just wondering what your stand on jump shots is. Do you like them, and use them as described, or do you not like them at all? Are you fairly proficient with them? My stand is that my opinion, generally isn't the right one for every player. I think if your going for a jump shot it should at least be a 75% chance of pocketing it, or a very low chance on kicking at it, if you get jammed up and just wanna make contact.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I 100% agree with you on this. People over use Jump shots. I have a jump cue and am fairly proficient with it, even to the point of being able to control jump draws fairly well, but most the time the jumper stays in the bag. I don't fit into the catergory your talking about, but i see lots that do. I wouldn't say that about amateur players only though. I can think of one person that will go for a jump from 3 inches away or 3 feet away from the obstructing ball, just about every time he is hooked. He is an A+ player and honestly makes probably 75% of them, so for him although he is jump happy, it works. I was just wondering what your stand on jump shots is. Do you like them, and use them as described, or do you not like them at all? Are you fairly proficient with them? My stand is that my opinion, generally isn't the right one for every player. I think if your going for a jump shot it should at least be a 75% chance of pocketing it, or a very low chance on kicking at it, if you get jammed up and just wanna make contact.

I would say I pocket the majority of jump-shots I attempt. Those that I miss are usually calculated misses. I do kick liberally and have always considered my kicking-game to be a strength. I will usually avoid full-ball jumps, especially if the obstruction is too close or too far. To opt for a jump when a good kick is available, that jump would have to fall right in the middle of my comfort-zone and pretty much be labeled "easy" as jumps go. I would be surprised if I used my jump cue more often than once every 25 games.

Unfortunately this is advice that I often forget but Tony Robles once said, "If there's a chance you can foul, it's the wrong shot." If my primary concern is getting the cue-ball over the obstruction, it has to be my only option for me to shoot it.


Jude M. Rosenstock