Need help adjusting a new HCP system (dubbed the weight system)

G

glfgd82

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok so personally I do not play in these unless needed, but I do run them to help out the pool owner so he doesnt have to work the counter and tourn. at the same time. Its HCP 9 ball on nine footers, I'm thinking rankings go from 10-2 and the races are 7 on winners and 5 on losers side. The chart will be standard "weight" given to whoever is a lower HCP based on the number difference between the two players, if even then its an even match (go figure eh?...lol). Problem I'm having is getting it all tweaked to what seems fair, we were just using a 2-9 system where you raced to your handicap, but not everyone had "fun" with it, now this is HCP and I want players to not only feel they have a chance, but as well as have fun with the time they are playing, and giving the lesser players weight seems natural, because thats what they do when they gamble anyways.

Problem being, I do not want to piss off the higher players by out weighting the match between them and a lesser player, so I ask you guys who may be upper players or even middle of the road players, what seems right, just a rough outline with some of the spots needing a fill in:

(using a 10 as the high just for show)

10 v. 9- Call 8 ball
10 v. 8- Call 7 and 8 Ball
10 v. 7- Call 6 and 7 ball (would call 6 only be better?)
10 v. 6- Wild 8 Ball
10 v. 5- Wild 7 and 8 ball
10 v. 4- Wild 6 and 7 ball
10 v. 3- Wild 6, 7 and 8 ball (should game on the wire be added?)
10 v. 2- CLUELESS

I want it to even out the matches as much as possible (in theory) so adding games on the wire or even giving the breaks to one person and so on is possible, just hope you guys can help me
 
Why not just use the NPL system? I've never used it, but after looking it over...it seems to be the fairest and most accurate handicapping system ever while maintaining as much simplicity as possible.


Most handicapping systems use complexity to try and achieve parity. In fact, they often fail. Sometimes the simplest system is the fairest.


I guess it comes down to overhead. A lot of pool halls/people who run tourneys don't like any system that requires data collection more than just remembering a person's handicap or having a simple card with that written down. The "village method" (what I like to call it) is used. IE, everyone knows everyone else's speed, and when people detect someone's picked up their game a bit, they bump them up. So, all you need is a chart on the wall with the races, and everyone learns a simple single digit number that indicates their skill.


I think tracking W-L is not too much work, but is for a lot of people that I've met. I guess you have to give in for some amount of work/tracking in order to form a truly fair handicapping system.


I know that's not what you asked about, but I thought I'd at least share that option with you. Now, that's not to say that the system you posted is unfair. A lot of these numerical handicaps with pre-determined races that go by estimating player's ability tend to work out for the most part, but probably never as well as a system that tracks W-L.
 
I would think this format would yeild too much confusion for the players. Especially the higher players who would now have to remember what balls are wild, which are call balls, for every person they play. If I were running the tourny I would eliminate all wild spots and use the call 8-ball only.

Using a 10 as a high, I would propose the following:

Assuming a race to 7

10 v. 9.5 - 1 game
10 v. 9.0 - Call 8
10 v. 8.5 - 2 games
10 v. 8.0 - 1 game + call 8
10 v. 7.5 - 3 games
10 v. 7.0 - 2 games + call 8
10 v. 6.5 - 4 games
10 v. 6.0 - 3 games + call 8
10 v. 5.5 - 4 games + call 8
10 v. 5.0 - 4 games + call 8
10 v. 4.5 - .....

The max any player should give is 4 games and the call 8-ball. If giving this much weight, the top player should be giving the 1st break. I think an additional money ball is more weight than spotting games so the pattern is for each .5 speed, a single game is spotted. For a 1-speed difference then the call 8-ball is spotted.

A few local tournaments I play use this type of system and I think it is fair. The better players should still win but it gives the weaker players a chance.

Regards,

pip9ball
 
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9-ball is the type of game where there's access for weaker players to win against stronger players due to the nature of the game. Because you play the same rack - anyone can win. It is much, much harder to handicap 8-ball against people who know how to play 8-ball correctly because it is a control game. Great players dog the 9, or can't get out or miss when they're down to a few balls. A miss in 8-ball for the stronger player is often not a victory for the weaker opponent.


That's why handicapping 9-ball simply by making the races different is enough and works fine. 5-2 race can work for example. No need to mix in balls, wilds and whatnot. If the race is set correctly, the stronger player WILL give up enough chances or windows of opportunity for the weaker player to be able to complete their objective.



You should be able to use just simple races to handicap.
 
Thanks for the input guys, my whole reason for the system is to play into the natural thinking of the players who show up for these tournaments, problem is, our 7's and 8's easily can break and run 3 racks in a row, and our 9's and 10's can go 4-5 without much of a sweat being broken, that leaves the 3's and 4's sitting for a long time and getting "detered" from wanting to play in the tournament again (heard it last week from a few 3's that they had "no shot" and would probably not come back). I'm hoping to catch the "FUN" side of it and make it something enjoyable and hopefully get these guys to play in our open tournaments later on as well as our traditional style HCP tournaments, so with that thinking, I figured a "giving weight" style where you set up against your opponent like you were gambling would be fun and create a more casual atmosphere.

This is pretty much my attempt to strum up some business from the casual player and help out my pool hall, say what you want but I am trageting the casual player with this tourney for sole purpose to get business thru the door and get a customer base started, I do not want my pool hall to close due to lack of players and since the serious players are already defined then that leaves Joe Schmoe as my target, think of it like this, the Open 9 ball is the major leagues, our traditional HCP tourneys are going to be the AAA squad and this "fun" tourney will be the AA squad. It really does get the gamble in you going.
 
I've found that you typically have to gear your handicap system to the players in your room. My system might not work in your room.

A nine in my system can definetly break and run, very rarely will he do a 2 or 3 pack. During the course of our tournament (8-12 players, double elimination) a 9 might have 4-6 break and runs. On the low side, a 6 can break and run, but might only do it once a tournament. 7 and 8's are in between. A 5 probably will never break and run.

I believe a handicap tournament lets everyone have a fair shot at winning. If a 6 never even gets into the cash, then he should be a 5. If the top ranked players always get in the cash then they need to be raised. This week 2 out of 3 9's did not cash. Our 8 and 9's win 1st about 50% of the time, but the 5, 6, and 7's are winning the rest.

My goal is that every race should go hill-hill. I think that means the handicap system is working. Oh sure there are days when the low ranked players get out from every where and the high ranked guys can't make a ball. It seems to balance it out.

I play in a system in another bar where the handicap system runs from 3 - 13. Its a cold day in hell when a 8 or below cashes.
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glfgd82 said:
10 v. 9- Call 8 ball
10 v. 8- Call 7 and 8 Ball
10 v. 7- Call 6 and 7 ball (would call 6 only be better?)
10 v. 6- Wild 8 Ball
10 v. 5- Wild 7 and 8 ball
10 v. 4- Wild 6 and 7 ball
10 v. 3- Wild 6, 7 and 8 ball (should game on the wire be added?)
10 v. 2- CLUELESS
Click to expand...

This system might work for you, but if the 2-6's never cash then they aren't getting enough weight.
 
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