need some advice guys and girls.

[Solartje]

hiya all,

ok here's the situation. A friend i met in brussels, who is from a foreign country (ive never even heared of it), who used to build billiard tables in his country, and now he has moved to brussels he's a snooker referee and ive intruduced him to pool in mycountry a month or 2 ago. Now today, he brought his little 11y old girl to the poolhall, and ... im sure the news is going to go around very quick, but she crushed every top female player in the house, including some man. This was the first time she ever played pool. She's been playing russion piramide and snooker for 4 years on recreational bases on a table at home. Now today, she kicked out very big guys and was clearing 9ball racks as if it was nothing. She is pritty much better then me in anything. composure, consistency, stance, stroke, stress-resistent, ritme, preshotroutine.

now i know after today the news will be running quicker then the birdflue virus. now her dad is a very good friend, and my question is. I'd love to help the girl out with all the experience and information i have (honest information) untill im just slowing her progress down. but im WAY not experienced enough and scared id spoil this natural talent. on the other hand, i would hate to just let greathy people take advantage of her small age, and foreign parents who dont speak the language well.

what would u advice me to do? As her dad is a personal friend , this case is really important for me, and even more important, the kid's hapyness and right environment. I know a natural talent when i see it, this kid HAS the potential the become a World class pro. Her rating would be a A level seeing the safety's and clearences she made. (note she had never ever played 9b before.. we had to explain her all the rulez on the spot, and she has only 4y of experience without a pro coach or anything, just playing on the tables her dad builds.)

i know, holland has some of the top coatches and professional clubs in the area. my first bet, would be to take contact with people like the coatch of the big dutch names like alex lely, nvdb, etc.. but on the other hand, maybe she needs to stay innocent and out of competition a bit longer? or just let her dad do the coatching job, but im afraid he's pool experience is even more limited then mine; and we dont agree on some things, like safetyplay. He think's its useless. On th eother hand, he's her dad, and sure to protect her from the wrong people (i hope) .... what do u think , and what would u advice.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Thats pretty incredible. I played 13 year old boy yesterday and I was impressed when he ran out a rack on me. This girl certainly blows him out of the water.

I would get her into some tournaments to get her used to that kind of pressure. Recreational play is all well and good but there is no pressure in that scenario. If you can get in touch with Alex Lely or NVB then I would think that they would be interested in coaching (of course for their usual fee).

But on the other hand the biggest thing to remember is that she is still a kid and if you push too hard then pool becomes a liability not a game.

 

[BRKNRUN]

hiya all,

ok here's the situation. A friend i met in brussels, who is from a foreign country (ive never even heared of it), who used to build billiard tables in his country, and now he has moved to brussels he's a snooker referee and ive intruduced him to pool in mycountry a month or 2 ago. Now today, he brought his little 11y old girl to the poolhall, and ... im sure the news is going to go around very quick, but she crushed every top female player in the house, including some man. This was the first time she ever played pool. She's been playing russion piramide and snooker for 4 years on recreational bases on a table at home. Now today, she kicked out very big guys and was clearing 9ball racks as if it was nothing. She is pritty much better then me in anything. composure, consistency, stance, stroke, stress-resistent, ritme, preshotroutine.

now i know after today the news will be running quicker then the birdflue virus. now her dad is a very good friend, and my question is. I'd love to help the girl out with all the experience and information i have (honest information) untill im just slowing her progress down. but im WAY not experienced enough and scared id spoil this natural talent. on the other hand, i would hate to just let greathy people take advantage of her small age, and foreign parents who dont speak the language well.

what would u advice me to do? As her dad is a personal friend , this case is really important for me, and even more important, the kid's hapyness and right environment. I know a natural talent when i see it, this kid HAS the potential the become a World class pro. Her rating would be a A level seeing the safety's and clearences she made. (note she had never ever played 9b before.. we had to explain her all the rulez on the spot, and she has only 4y of experience without a pro coach or anything, just playing on the tables her dad builds.)

i know, holland has some of the top coatches and professional clubs in the area. my first bet, would be to take contact with people like the coatch of the big dutch names like alex lely, nvdb, etc.. but on the other hand, maybe she needs to stay innocent and out of competition a bit longer? or just let her dad do the coatching job, but im afraid he's pool experience is even more limited then mine; and we dont agree on some things, like safetyplay. He think's its useless. On th eother hand, he's her dad, and sure to protect her from the wrong people (i hope) .... what do u think , and what would u advice.

I was a golf instuctor at one time and have worked with kids so I have a little experience in this matter.

My personal opinion for an 11 year old is to not even attempt to "teach" her......most kids at that age don't like to be "taught", they want to "have fun"...

Make the game as "fun" as you can for her. Find ways to teach her stuff through fun......Yes, thats right, I am telling you to "trick" her into learning through "fun" games that will benifit her stroke, CB control etc.....be creative...

The more fun you make it today, the more she will want to "learn" as she gets older.

When she is "ready", she will ask for you to "teach" her...It could be subtle...like "how do you do this"....Then have a qualified instructor ready to show her. (that could be you)

Quite a few kids that are "taught" from a young age (at least for golf) get better yes, but they get "burn out" and quit because they were not having "fun", they were doing it for "mom or dad"

 

[Tbeaux]

Yeah, you have to remember in the end this is just a kid. They said during the "BIG FINAL MATCH" at the IPT Austin Murphy was off playing tag with a friend. Just talk to her father about what you think of her potential and your fears about the wrong people finding out about her. Offer to help her and leave the rest to him. JMHO


Terry

 

[Solartje]

ok thx for the first reply's.

some things ive got to say. I dont think she or her dad could afford a pro coatch like the one form nvd , alex, or even UK snooker coatches like terry grifith etc.. im not going into details, but i dont think they can afford any good coatch at all..

Id love to teach her some things while playing, but this is the first time im scared id spoil more then i would teach. Im teaching some players, (im not a coach by ANY means) but this girls scares me. She's so pure, i dont even think about changing something about her fundamentals. on the other side, i can help her with seeing shots, different ways of getting position, etc. but im not enough qualified i think. Im strugling with consistency myself, and im only a B player.

about burning out.. thats exactly what im thinking of too. I adviced them to take part next weekend in the national Aranking for woman to see if she likes tournaments. Today i coudnt tell if she liked it... She is SO quiet and shy, it was hard to get any emotion out of her. we'll see how it goes. I think for the moment, the best would be for her father to take care of her. Once she'll be winning ranking events one after the other, she'll be ready for the next step. time will tell, but this kid is so precious, im even scared to take her to tournaments... this logic?

edit: Terry, i agree partialy on it. the main reason is... even if i dont doubt her fathers experience and he's the best person to help her now as he knows her ... well 11 years he's always saying:almost never play a safety, go for the impossible shot, and if u make it, your opponent will be so scared he wont be able to pot a ball... its a 'different' way of thinking then mine.... Her safetyplay Is something she needs experience in, as is her more diffcult positional play (forcing angles, cheating pockets, 3cussion, etc) and im abit scared of statements like that... but who am i to tell him to do different. im just silly solly

 

[BRKNRUN]

he's always saying:almost never play a safety, go for the impossible shot, and if u make it, your opponent will be so scared he wont be able to pot a ball... is a 'different' way of thinking. Her safetyplay Is something she needs experience, as is her more diffcult positional play (forcing angles, cheating pockets, 3cussion, etc) and im abit scared of statements like that... but who am i to tell him to do different. im just silly solly

I would lean toward the father on this (for now)...

She can learn position play through creative fun games your going to come up with.

As far as the "go for it" mentalitly....Have you heard of the term "no fear"...Kids have that..... Eventually she will gain fear and thus learn to "play the odds'

However right now let her go for it and "come with the shot" when she needs it.

Kind of like Tiger Woods as he was growing up...He was allowed to rip the ball off the tee as he was growing up. He learned how make "ball go far" so to speak.....Now, as he is more mature, he has throttled back on the "long ball" and even though he still hits it far, he has more control, but more important he can come with the "long ball" when he really needs it...Kids that are throttled back right from the start, never learn how to hit the "long ball"...They end up playing at a disadvantage.

Let her draw the ball 3 rails for shape if she wants, or hit that "back cut"..Then, down the road, even though she has matured and learned to "play safe"...she will still be able to come with the shot when necessary....JMO

 

[Solartje]

BRKNRUN: thats what my mind says too. Let the father do his job, and deal with some weird statements of him later. Im sure she'll find them out by herself

what im going to say i really mean it. I wish this girl the very best in her career and i hope she'll make the right descisions and have the right persons around her to get as good as she can get... She's so sweet and gifted its a shame if she'd ever falls in bad hands.

ill be sure to let u all know how she'll do on saterday vs the top15 female players of my country. My 2c... she's either gonna finish 2d or 1st.

 

[Donovan]

First off, I used to teach golf too. And I agree with almost everything BRKNRUN has said.

Sols, make the tourney fun for her and applaud her for just participating. The biggest thing I can advise you and the father is find something else she likes to do also. If pool becomes the only focus, she will likely grow to hate it as if it is a job. However, if she likes (heck I don't know,) video games too for example, make sure the SAME KIND OF PRAISE is used for both. It is important that fun and love is stressed above pool.

Tiger Woods from golf is not the norm. Kids pushed into doing something, don't usually continue it as they grow older, unless like BRKNRUN says, it is fun for them. The father just needs to be supportive of her as a dad who loves their kid and not as a "pool dad" who loves her talent. I can't stress that enough.

As far as her developing her game without having money to get a personal coach goes, I think I have a good idea for you. Take some of the drills that some of the great instructors have developed and make those puzzle games. I'm thinking as I am writing so bare with me. Off the top of my head, just write to Joe Tucker, Bert Kinister, anyone who is everyone that teaches pool, and tell them about the situation. Ask them if they will email you or mail you some drills to get the kid's game to improve. Let them know up front that you are not able to go out and get coaching or pay for tons of fancy stuff.

What you are looking for here is the drills themselves and the rules in which to do them. Then teach her the rules of this "puzzle" and let her figure out how to accomplish it on her own. You don't really want people telling her how to do the drill, let her mind figure them out as a puzzle. I'm sure you are already seeing how this is going to make her think for herself and as she learns to solve them on her own it will reinforce her confidence to trust her thinking as she improves.

BTW, she will learn about safeties as she learns to trust her own thinking and as she sees others do it to her in competition. So, I wouldn't worry about that now. It will come to her, as it has to all of us. You realize most of us started out by firing at every shot, right? So no worries there Sols, my Friend.

If you wanted to work on her father at all about this, just mention that maybe he should just let her do things her way. Say something like, "The quickest way to ruin raw talent is to start giving rules and guidelines, that prevent the talent from discovering and exploring it's own way to success. Allow her to make her own mistakes and learn from them, and who knows what inventive things she may discover for herself on the way." As a side note and I don't think I would say this to him, but many of the greatest inventions and feats of our human existence, came from learning as you go.

Good luck with all of this Sols! AND KEEP US POSTED!

 

[iacas]

As far as her developing her game without having money to get a personal coach goes, I think I have a good idea for you. Take some of the drills that some of the great instructors have developed and make those puzzle games. I'm thinking as I am writing so bare with me. Off the top of my head, just write to Joe Tucker, Bert Kinister, anyone who is everyone that teaches pool, and tell them about the situation. Ask them if they will email you or mail you some drills to get the kid's game to improve. Let them know up front that you are not able to go out and get coaching or pay for tons of fancy stuff.

What you are looking for here is the drills themselves and the rules in which to do them. Then teach her the rules of this "puzzle" and let her figure out how to accomplish it on her own. You don't really want people telling her how to do the drill, let her mind figure them out as a puzzle. I'm sure you are already seeing how this is going to make her think for herself and as she learns to solve them on her own it will reinforce her confidence to trust her thinking as she improves.

You can also find a few drills at http://billiardsdrills.com/ as well. They're free and the stylesheet for printing is pretty clean, so print a few out. I just added a "games" category, too, and will be adding more games that you can play against her or that she can play by herself.

I want to re-iterate what was said above: make it fun. In golf - and I too have coached some juniors (not as a pro, mind you) - I like to invent games that teach people things. For example, I'll challenge a team to hit balls into a bucket 10, 20, 30 yards away with different clubs. This helps their pitching. A similar game in pool might be to try to leave a ball as close to the edge of the pocket without going in as possible, from various distances. Play against her or see if she can leave six balls in the six pockets on her own.

Or see who can draw the most. Or set up some quasi-trick shots, the stroke shots, to see if she can make those. They're fun and the teach a good stroke, from what I can gather (the non-stroke trick shots, not so much... )

I'd tell her that tournaments exist, but only enter her if she asks if she can enter them. I wouldn't suggest entering them myself. Just tell her the option is there and see if she wants to grab it herself. It's tough to force someone to be competitive...

In other words, I think you may best be able to help by doing this:
1) Watch her play
2) Figure out what she could improve most
3) Devise a "drill" that plays like a game to work on that skill, ideally with a scoring system or a way for her to measure her improvement.

 

[Solartje]

thx for the advice all.

also ill have to try to figure out puzzles and drills she can play on her dad's russion pooltable. Ive not seen it yet, but thats the only place she plays. Ive heared its like a pooltable but with pockets only 2mm bigger then the balls?. I should go to his place this week to check his hometables out. i supose i can do most pooldrills on that table too right? ive never seen a table like that.

id love to help the kid out, but i think her dad is pritty protective. he likes to do it his way, and it will be hard to give some advice, but i will try to do it anyway. Then its up to him to folow it or ignore it. im only a friend who is concerned about her future. on the other side, i think her dad told me she plays some snooker competitions. adding more pool tournaments might be to much for such a young kid. but again, im not her dad. I hope her dad will trust me enough in time to alow me to help her and listen to my advice.

Id love to train with her too. Im sure it wont be easy for me to win. Ill have to give it my A-game. we can both learn alot from eachother. My weeknesses are her strenghts and visa versa.

on a side note; as she is very young and very shy, its hard to know what she thinks about it. does she like playing tournaments? doe she prefere snooker or russion billiard over pool? would she like to practice less or more ? etc. will be hard to get her confidence and get some honest answers from her, but i dont mind spending all my time in this kid. she's amazing and adorable.

ill be posting how she did in her first national ranking (if she goes).