Oops I did it again (Yapp's) foul in a final, a second time!

S

smoochie

NotLikeThis
I made a threat about his first one here, https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...radona-making-a-goal-with-his-hands-d.579054/

But now he won again with a foul in the final rack.

I don't know whats up with Yapp and winning the final rack on a foul, however this one isn't his fault - he knew its a foul, he waited for the ref to call it, the ref was just so bad that she didn't know how to distinguish a foul/good shot in pocket billiards when balls are close, just like that other referee dude I forgot his name where he squints too hard to try & see which ball is hit first, thats not how to determine a foul in pool...EVER

The way to tell if its a foul or not is by the cueball reaction, very very very simple. You don't need to squint, you dont need to see both balls and eye-ball it to see which was hit first. It is very easy if you have pool knowledge, just look at the cueball and from a mile away you can see if its a foul or not (That goes for any two closely balls, or also a ball & rail very closely together) check the cueball reaction and you would know.

In a million years if he hit the 8ball first the cueball would NEVER follow the 8ball in its direction, literally you can see the whity going after the 8ball which indicates he hit the pueple first, if you hit the 8ball first then the purple 2nd then the cueball would react differently either going in between both balls (direction wise) or following the purple in its direction.

No need to zoom in, no need to squint, and for viewers with no knowledge about pool please dont try to zoom in, thats not how you determine this.

Clip of the shot in question.

(I don't know if i stamped it correctly, its the last shot of the match).

P.S. I love Yapp please don't get me wrong. Grats to him for winning the tournament, very well deserved, this time it's the ref fault. I know i mentioned this but look at his face when the 8ball was going to the pocket, he was waiting for the foul call he stared at the ref....also FSR knew its a fault but he's such a gentelmen and followed by what the ref called & went on with it as the crowd kept cheering, he didn't want to ruin the moment for Yapp, FSR is such a nice guy.
 
my old eyes could not see the first one move the 9 ball. and the second one not so sure of either. he could have thrown the ball with english and followed with the cue ball. its too hard to call fouls just on the way a ball reacts unless its more drastic.

for a ref to call a foul he needs to be damn well sure.

and i am in the camp of the opponent needs to direct the ref to watch the shot if he thinks it isn't going to be good.
 
maha said:
my old eyes could not see the first one move the 9 ball. and the second one not so sure of either. he could have thrown the ball with english and followed with the cue ball. its too hard to call fouls just on the way a ball reacts unless its more drastic.

for a ref to call a foul he needs to be damn well sure.

and i am in the camp of the opponent needs to direct the ref to watch the shot if he thinks it isn't going to be good.
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you think its possible to hit the 8ball first, then the purple ball, then the cueball goes into the direction it went to? it went to the same direction as a 8ball not just that, but even to the left of 8ball slightly the opposite side of that purple ball, try following a shot with any english that you desire and hit the ball #1 then the cueball hits ball #2 then cueball turns around and follows ball #1 - show me this magic please I can't wait to see it.
 
the ref didn't decide it wasn't possible. thats who makes the decision even if you dont like it.

and rule is if not absolutely sure it goes to the shooter.

could it have hit a tiny piece of chalk and rolled off. some chalk on the cue ball, is the table off . can it possibly do what it did.

no one complained except you and your weren't there. so over ruled.
 
maha said:
and i am in the camp of the opponent needs to direct the ref to watch the shot if he thinks it isn't going to be good.
Click to expand...

I would agree if there is only an area referee. If there is a table referee as here, i dont think the seated player gets to tell the ref to watch what they are supposed to be watching.
 
why not if its in your interest and you believe a foul is to be committed. you think a player is supposed to say nothing if the ref is not looking.
 
smoochie said:
I made a threat about his first one here, https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...radona-making-a-goal-with-his-hands-d.579054/

But now he won again with a foul in the final rack.

I don't know whats up with Yapp and winning the final rack on a foul, however this one isn't his fault - he knew its a foul, he waited for the ref to call it, the ref was just so bad that she didn't know how to distinguish a foul/good shot in pocket billiards when balls are close, just like that other referee dude I forgot his name where he squints too hard to try & see which ball is hit first, thats not how to determine a foul in pool...EVER

The way to tell if its a foul or not is by the cueball reaction, very very very simple. You don't need to squint, you dont need to see both balls and eye-ball it to see which was hit first. It is very easy if you have pool knowledge, just look at the cueball and from a mile away you can see if its a foul or not (That goes for any two closely balls, or also a ball & rail very closely together) check the cueball reaction and you would know.

In a million years if he hit the 8ball first the cueball would NEVER follow the 8ball in its direction, literally you can see the whity going after the 8ball which indicates he hit the pueple first, if you hit the 8ball first then the purple 2nd then the cueball would react differently either going in between both balls (direction wise) or following the purple in its direction.

No need to zoom in, no need to squint, and for viewers with no knowledge about pool please dont try to zoom in, thats not how you determine this.

Clip of the shot in question.

(I don't know if i stamped it correctly, its the last shot of the match).

P.S. I love Yapp please don't get me wrong. Grats to him for winning the tournament, very well deserved, this time it's the ref fault. I know i mentioned this but look at his face when the 8ball was going to the pocket, he was waiting for the foul call he stared at the ref....also FSR knew its a fault but he's such a gentelmen and followed by what the ref called & went on with it as the crowd kept cheering, he didn't want to ruin the moment for Yapp, FSR is such a nice guy.
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He is a nice guy, but I wonder what his reaction would have been if it had been hill-hill
 
maha said:
why not if its in your interest and you believe a foul is to be committed. you think a player is supposed to say nothing if the ref is not looking.
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It’s not like the referee was off looking at something else. She was looking at the shot. So all FSR could say is “hey, ref, maybe you need a different angle”! I don’t think that works!
 
maha said:
the ref didn't decide it wasn't possible. thats who makes the decision even if you dont like it.

and rule is if not absolutely sure it goes to the shooter.

could it have hit a tiny piece of chalk and rolled off. some chalk on the cue ball, is the table off . can it possibly do what it did.

no one complained except you and your weren't there. so over ruled.
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Like the OP said, if you have pool knowledge, the foul is self evident. You can't always tell which ball is hit first by the naked eye, but you can tell which ball was hit last by the path of the cueball - it comes off the tangent line of the ball hit 2nd. It went to Yapp's left off the tangent line with the 8. If he hit the 8 last, then he hit the 4 first. It didn't hit a flake of chalk, it wasn't that the ref was unsure, it was that the ref didn't know what the hell she/he was doing. DEI fails again.
 
in the pool room good luck saying it was a foul because the cue ball went thataway. sure maybe it was but you aint getting paid.

only if before the shot you came to an agreement or if a ref was there he told you what had to happen.

since the ref was there and made no call it was a legal shot according to the rules. game over.
 
maha said:
in the pool room...
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an opponent would arrange to get a cell phone over the balls and film the shot. Personally, I don't make my opponent initiate a filming, I ask for it myself. Pro refs should be able to do the same thing.
 
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i can go for that as its a reasonable option and proof. as long as each player can ask for it.

i also say when gambling that we dont call double hits if you jack up. its the same for both of us and no arguments.
comes up alot in one pocket as bunting balls close together comes in .
 
During a recent tournament, i think one of the womens', this particular ref missed two, blatant fouls. One of them was a simple no rail contact foul, on a kick shot. I saw it, and hundreds of people on the live chat saw it. I think it was a jasmin ouschan match.
 
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Bad reffing. Plain and simple. Yapp knew it. FSR couldn't see as he was seated behind Yapp. Ball path makes it obvious. If you slow down the vid to 0.25x speed, you can clearly see the 4 move first...if knowing the physics of the shot isn't enough for you.

Baffles the mind how a professional ref doesn't just think to themselves, "if CB goes this way, good shot, if that way, foul" before the shot is even taken.

Would've been nice to see Yapp call a foul on himself there. I get it, if ref doesn't call it, it's not a foul, and as a player you just take those when it's your turn. I know one thing for certain; Ronnie O'Sullivan would have called it on himself.
 
There is simply no way to know what Yapp was thinking or if he knew it was a foul. People are so certain of things, but you just don't know.

There have been many times when I couldn't tell if I committed a foul. Sometimes my mind and eyes are focused on several things at once and I don't know. It all happens so fast, and I don't get the benefit of slow mo. Nor am I thinking about physics or where a ball should go.

Sometimes I can't even remember the sequence of whether a ball hit a rail on a safety attempt. I have to rely at times on my playing partner(s) to watch closely and be the judge.

Some fouls are obvious to the shooter. Maybe even most fouls. But some are not in real time. Just as Yapp looked at the ref, I look at my playing partner to tell me: Was that a foul? Looking at my partner doesn't mean I know I am guilty.

Throw in the all the pressure of the event, and sure, I can believe Yapp truly was unsure. There is nothing in his history to suggest he knowing doesn't call fouls on himself.
 
People keep saying this is a foul based on where the cue ball went, which I understand. But I am also curious where the cue ball would go if it is a simultaneous hit and there was spin on the cue ball, and if simultaneous hits are considered legal by these rules.
 
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