Open V Bridge vs Closed

B

BobbyJudo

New member
Hi,

I'm an average player, able to run the table at 8 ball when I'm at my best, or put together 4 or 5 ball runs with some regularity when I play nine ball, and I have a working of knowledge of English, although my control of it isn't as consistent as I'd like it to be.

I've always used an open v bridge for every shot, elevating or lowering the heel of my hand as needed for draw or follow. Recently, in an attempt to improve my consistency and position play, I've been consulting Robert Byrne's "Standard."

He says that the open v is good for beginners, but all pros should use a closed bridge for increased accuracy, especially when it comes to English. When I try though, I can't make about 80% of the shots I would normally hit. I can feel the cue sticking and catching as it slides between my thumb and forefinger, no matter how much chalk I use. I also feels like it changes the elevation from which I'm used to lining up my shot.

I've only been at it for a few days, so I'm sure I'll get more used to it, but do I really need to? Is it worth it at this stage? Will it affect my play significantly if I do get the new bridge down comfortably?
 
BobbyJudo said:
Hi,

I'm an average player, able to run the table at 8 ball when I'm at my best, or put together 4 or 5 ball runs with some regularity when I play nine ball, and I have a working of knowledge of English, although my control of it isn't as consistent as I'd like it to be.

I've always used an open v bridge for every shot, elevating or lowering the heel of my hand as needed for draw or follow. Recently, in an attempt to improve my consistency and position play, I've been consulting Robert Byrne's "Standard."

He says that the open v is good for beginners, but all pros should use a closed bridge for increased accuracy, especially when it comes to English. When I try though, I can't make about 80% of the shots I would normally hit. I can feel the cue sticking and catching as it slides between my thumb and forefinger, no matter how much chalk I use. I also feels like it changes the elevation from which I'm used to lining up my shot.

I've only been at it for a few days, so I'm sure I'll get more used to it, but do I really need to? Is it worth it at this stage? Will it affect my play significantly if I do get the new bridge down comfortably?
Click to expand...

Bobby:

One thing to keep in mind, is that Robert Byrne comes from a 3-cushion background, where the closed bridge is almost exclusively used. The reason is for the stability of applying spin to the cue ball, which is a staple in this high art of the cue sports.

An open bridge, with its righted "V" channel, is actually more accurate if we're talking about the cue riding in a consistent channel that is predictable, and that takes into account various tapers of the cue shaft, etc. However, a closed bridge can be made just as accurate, if its internal "V" channel in it is oriented correctly. There's a difference between the various types of closed bridges, from just the index finger forming a circular loop around the shaft (which has no "V"-channel at all), to the "index-finger-pressing-down-upon-the-middle-finger" bridge that you see commonly used by the pros. (This latter bridge is mistakenly called the "Filipino" closed bridge, but that is obviously incorrect, because players like, e.g. Steve Mizerak and Mike Sigel, have been using this style of bridge long before the first Pinoy player stepped foot on US soil.)

The issue with the closed bridge, is how the internal "V" channel is oriented. If you can orient that internal "V" structure so that it's as close to being straight up and down (rather than laying on its side, like this ">" for a right-handed/left-bridge player, or like this "<" for a left-handed/right-bridge player), you'll be as close to the accuracy of the open bridge, and have the additional support as well.

Rather than reinvent the wheel, there are older threads about this topic that you might find interesting. Here's one example:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3119239#post3119239

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
 
Bobby,

you're not alone.

I've been playing for over 20 years, and will probably never use a closed bridge (except when shooting off-handed, for some reason).

I have tried a few times, but my bridge hand doesn't like it.

The truth is, I don't feel a need to change. Why? I haven't noticed, in all that time, any loss of precision, power, or other ability due to my open bridge.

-s
 
I also was never comfortable in a closed bridge. I then changed where the cue lays in the bridge hand and which also auto adjusted my position of the bridge hand on the table and on the aim line. I became pretty comfortable in a closed bridge after that and it really helped my stroke out. It helped with accuracy, i am guessing it moved the cue line to the correct sight line for me, i am not 100% sure.
 
I completely disagree with what some people say that an open bridge or a closed bridge is more accurate than the other, they both can be equally as accurate and you can do about every shot one way or the other. Sometimes they will teach you to use a closed bridge for powers shots, that's just because of comfort, if you need to hit a ball hard and you do it with an open bridge sometimes the vibration of the shaft will "knock" the shaft out of your open bridge hand, whereas that doesn't happen on a closed bridge, but it really doesn't matter because the cueball is long gone once you get the feedback or vibration from the shot. There are two main reasons why some people have problems making shots with a closed bridge. 1) if they get down too low and bridge too close to the cueball it will not give you a direct sight down the cueball and the path to the object ball, but mainly is reason #2) the way they place their bridge hand with a closed bridge creates too much friction on specific parts of the shaft and this will "guide" the shaft away from the friction making you hit the cueball in the non intended spot. You should never think of your bridge hand as the hand that "guides" your cue, it's one thing that should never move during and after the stroke, I would even say before too, if you feel like you need to move your bridge hand left or right while you are down on the shot to correct the cue then you alignment is wrong, you should get up and reset.

I personally made it my goal to be proficient in all 5 basic pool bridges, and now it's just something I never even think about it, my subconscious just decides how am I gonna shoot the shot whether is open of closed.
 
BobbyJudo said:
Hi,

I'm an average player, able to run the table at 8 ball when I'm at my best, or put together 4 or 5 ball runs with some regularity when I play nine ball, and I have a working of knowledge of English, although my control of it isn't as consistent as I'd like it to be.

I've always used an open v bridge for every shot, elevating or lowering the heel of my hand as needed for draw or follow. Recently, in an attempt to improve my consistency and position play, I've been consulting Robert Byrne's "Standard."

He says that the open v is good for beginners, but all pros should use a closed bridge for increased accuracy, especially when it comes to English. When I try though, I can't make about 80% of the shots I would normally hit. I can feel the cue sticking and catching as it slides between my thumb and forefinger, no matter how much chalk I use. I also feels like it changes the elevation from which I'm used to lining up my shot.

I've only been at it for a few days, so I'm sure I'll get more used to it, but do I really need to? Is it worth it at this stage? Will it affect my play significantly if I do get the new bridge down comfortably?
Click to expand...

I played for 2 years on the Women's Pro tour with a V-bridge and still managed to keep my rank in the top 16. I was able to perform all the required shots with that bridge. However, the reason I did it was because I was using a carom-tapered shaft, which, if you are familiar with carom billiards, is a sharp taper. It made it uncomfortable for me to follow through the way I like to on those big shots with a closed bridge, so I switched my bridge.

That experience allowed me to become proficient with a V-bridge where I wasn't proficient before. But I still prefer shooting pool with a closed bridge and switched to a different shaft where I can now use the closed bridge and switch to the V-bridge where I feel necessary.

You can adapt to anything if you want to, just make sure you are getting the job done in the way that you want to. If not, then continue to experiment. Even if you wind up switching back, you'll be a stronger player for the experience.

Bob Byrne is a long-time buddy of mine, and I understand where he's coming from with this. Bigger pool balls and closed bridges go pretty well together, generally speaking. There are always exceptions.
 
BobbyJudo said:
Hi,

I'm an average player, able to run the table at 8 ball when I'm at my best, or put together 4 or 5 ball runs with some regularity when I play nine ball, and I have a working of knowledge of English, although my control of it isn't as consistent as I'd like it to be.

I've always used an open v bridge for every shot, elevating or lowering the heel of my hand as needed for draw or follow. Recently, in an attempt to improve my consistency and position play, I've been consulting Robert Byrne's "Standard."

He says that the open v is good for beginners, but all pros should use a closed bridge for increased accuracy, especially when it comes to English. When I try though, I can't make about 80% of the shots I would normally hit. I can feel the cue sticking and catching as it slides between my thumb and forefinger, no matter how much chalk I use. I also feels like it changes the elevation from which I'm used to lining up my shot.

I've only been at it for a few days, so I'm sure I'll get more used to it, but do I really need to? Is it worth it at this stage? Will it affect my play significantly if I do get the new bridge down comfortably?
Click to expand...

Are you putting chalk on your fingers where the cue slides? If so, stop! Chalk causes friction, and should only be put on your tip.
 
sfleinen said:
Bobby:

One thing to keep in mind, is that Robert Byrne comes from a 3-cushion background, where the closed bridge is almost exclusively used. The reason is for the stability of applying spin to the cue ball, which is a staple in this high art of the cue sports.

An open bridge, with its righted "V" channel, is actually more accurate if we're talking about the cue riding in a consistent channel that is predictable, and that takes into account various tapers of the cue shaft, etc. However, a closed bridge can be made just as accurate, if its internal "V" channel in it is oriented correctly. There's a difference between the various types of closed bridges, from just the index finger forming a circular loop around the shaft (which has no "V"-channel at all), to the "index-finger-pressing-down-upon-the-middle-finger" bridge that you see commonly used by the pros. (This latter bridge is mistakenly called the "Filipino" closed bridge, but that is obviously incorrect, because players like, e.g. Steve Mizerak and Mike Sigel, have been using this style of bridge long before the first Pinoy player stepped foot on US soil.)

The issue with the closed bridge, is how the internal "V" channel is oriented. If you can orient that internal "V" structure so that it's as close to being straight up and down (rather than laying on its side, like this ">" for a right-handed/left-bridge player, or like this "<" for a left-handed/right-bridge player), you'll be as close to the accuracy of the open bridge, and have the additional support as well.
Rather than reinvent the wheel, there are older threads about this topic that you might find interesting. Here's one example:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3119239#post3119239

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
Click to expand...

when you make a v bridge there is a line made between the skin of the thumb and the skin of the side of the hand /index knuckle
it was pointed out to me that my line was not along the line of the shot
it was also pointed out that i shot across my body from right to left

after some stance changes the line in my bridge hand became on line with the shot without concious effort
i also began to shoot thru the ball better and have less instances of unwanted left spin(still happens tho:()
however on a closed bridge that line is on a 45 degree from the line of the shot and the stance changes didnt make a difference
when i try to force a closed bridge with my hand alligned "in line"
i cant get as snug a fit with the cue so i have continued doing it my old way
my % of unwanted left spin is not higher with my closed bridge (my impression h=guess i should shoot 10 stop shots each way and see)

so sean or anyone else is it important to try and change the orientation of my bridge hand???

i hope you all can understand what im trying to explain
 
Thanks!

Appreciate the opinions and info, everyone, and thanks very much for the link to the older thread, Sean. Lots of helpful stuff there too.

As for chalking my fingers... I've adopted my father's habit of also referring to talcum or baby powder as chalk. Is that a common thing, or is it just us?
 
BobbyJudo said:
Appreciate the opinions and info, everyone, and thanks very much for the link to the older thread, Sean. Lots of helpful stuff there too.

As for chalking my fingers... I've adopted my father's habit of also referring to talcum or baby powder as chalk. Is that a common thing, or is it just us?
Click to expand...

Some do call it chalk, but most call it "powder". "Chalk" almost all the time refers to the cube of chalk that you apply to your tip. I asked, because I have seen a number of beginners actually put tip chalk on their fingers thinking it would make the cue glide smoother. It doesn't.
 
Keep the open bridge for all of your close shots. You need the closed bridge for long-draw shots.

My 2 hr. No Time For Negative dvd covers all 5 bridges. It is for sale on ebay for $29.99.

Irving Crane used 5 different bridges, and so do I. Every great player uses the open bridge at some time during a match.

Best of Luck !!!!
 
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