Would anyone have any info as to why Palmer cues are so sought after and collectible? I know that they are not made anymore and they are from a long time ago. Im not much of a pool history buff so I really dont know much about them. All I know is that they are collectibles and supposedly very good cues. Thanks
Palmer cues
- Thread starter NOSAJ03
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the reason why their so collectable is they were one of the first quality two piece cues ever sold. they started in 1960.
NOSAJ03,
Bernies right. The original Palmer Cues were the cues of choice when I first started in the game. Do not confuse the current Palmer branded product for the original. They are imported products with quality far inferior to the originals. If you have an opportunity to purchase an original, contact the guys at classiccues.com for information on authenticity and price ranges.
Bernies right. The original Palmer Cues were the cues of choice when I first started in the game. Do not confuse the current Palmer branded product for the original. They are imported products with quality far inferior to the originals. If you have an opportunity to purchase an original, contact the guys at classiccues.com for information on authenticity and price ranges.
NOSAJ03 said:
In the day they were a decent alternative to the Paradise's and the
Bushka's of the time. They were well made production cues, and were
the first production cue house to be considered custom. Being where they
were in Elizabeth NJ, the influences are obvious. Gene Balner broke away
from Paradise in 1963 or 64. This is why alot of Palmers are confused for
Paradise's and vice versa. Palmers also had screw off ferrules for a long time,
adding to the difficulty in telling the two apart. Balner was very intune
to cues and cue buyers, he had cues that intentionally looked like his rivals best models, the Model K for the Diamond King Paradise, model C for a Rambow, etc.. his futuristice cue the Model M, and he made cues for every budget. From $25.00 to $200 he had his bases covered. He used Szamboti blanks as well as Spain blanks. His wife did wraps and his son also worked in the shop. In New Jersey where I am from, Palmer ties alot of local cuemaking talent together, Karl Meyer, Frank Paradise Gene Balner, Mike Fedunka, all these guys are from the same gene pool, kind of like Janes, Scruggs, Frey, and the rest of the Baltimore bunch are today.
Joe
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Guest
very intresting! too add to the story, in the 1980's when videos and video stores were a big deal, peter balner had an idea, why not open a chain of video stores? he did and it was very, very successfull. you probably heard of his video chain he called it palmer video . by the way, you may ask yourself, why if the father and son's last name is balner, why then or better yet, how then did they get the name palmer? here's the answer: back in 1960 arnold palmer was the biggest name in all of american sports. gene balner thought, we need a name for our cues, that will stand out, and mean "the best in sports" he almost wanted to confuse the masses, so they may think, hey, these were developed by or / for arnold palmer. anyhow, after the video craze faded, peter the son, made his millions, and was out of work. he wanted to work in designing pool cues. maybe the gentlemen from new jersey, can shine some light, on why peter didn't go back working for his father, maybe he was dead by then? anyhow, the year was 1999, peter said in an interview, he wanted to work for a company with the longest, and best reputation, a company that has been around for a long time. he went to Mali on park avenue in new york city, the oldest family owned comapny in new york city. Mali has been around since 1826. they were there before their was a statue of liberty! anyhow, pete met with fred, the owner of Mali, and struck up a deal. the new line of Mali cues for 1999 were co- designed by peter balner. the new line were called the M-series and featured the fanciest work Mali ever put into a cue. i own the M-14 and love it. the M-20 was and still is to this day the most expensive Mali ever made retail $750. the M-20 featured hand selected birds eye maple, exclusive washed seianna stain, jet black african ebony floating islands surrounded by black and white curvy borders, inlaid into the islands were 86 white acrylic mosiac patterns, that the blue book called "very intricate" anyhow, around late 2000 the story went, that pete and fred couldn't see eye to eye, so i guess pete was fired, may have quit? i don't know. after making pool cues since 1968 in a little facility in sheffield mass, known as cuesport, Mali decided they were loseing money by employing american workers. they figured everyone else is outsourcing over to china and tawian, and making a profit, why not them? so after 32 years of making cues at cuesport, Mali shut down, and now, their latest models, made in china the series F- and V- are fantastic, look and hit great, and are less expensive, for instance, crushed turqiouse into ebony, $200! well, i don't know where peter or gene is maybe someone can shed light on that. but i will say this, palmer liked to use mother of pearl inlaid into their cues, in fact, i believe they were the first to ever use mother of pearl? anyhow, on some of their cues, they used a lot of mother of pearl. those cues in particular, are the most sought after today, and could fetch upwards of $8000! also, a 1968 Mali, top of the line, could get you $2000 today! for more information on the Henry William Theodore Mali & company, go to wwww.malicloth.com and click on "our history".
Thanks for the great info. The reason I asked was because there are a lot of people selling palmer cues and they claim to be collectables. There is this guy that plays in a monday night league that I play in. He doesnt play very well and he is always asking me for advice of stuff. He asked me about what cues are good and he said that his cue is a palmer. Its green and one of the ugliest cues Ive ever seen. He said that it used to be his dads so Im assuming that it is an original. I told him that they are supposed to be good cues but wasnt really sure. I was really just wondering why something like that would be such a collectible.
Try One
Hey Nosajo3,
I Bought A Palmer In 1960 At Oakland Billiard Supply In California.it Had Mother Of Pearl And There Was A Plastic Or Phenolic Ring Above The Bottom Rubber Of The Butt That You Could Insert A Piece Of Paper With Your Name On It.
I'm Sure I Paid No More Than $100.00 For It At That Time.got Mad Once And Threw It On The Floor And Cracked The Butt. Ended Up Giving It To Someone.
It Changed Hands A Few Times And The Current Owner Had It Repaired And Refinished. It Is Worth Mega-bucks According To The Catalogs.
But The True Value Of Anything Is How Much Cash Someone Will Give You For It Regardless Of What The Catalogs Say.
Course This Is 40 Years Later And Maybe It's Value Is Based On Age?
Do Yourself A Favor And The Next Time You See The Guy With The Ugly Palmer Ask Him To Let You Hit A Few Balls With It. Am Sure You Will Be Pleasantly Surprised.
John Robinson Of Hayward California (presently Robinson Cues) Was Doing Mother Of Pearl Inlays In The Late 1950's.his Thing Is The Joint.best Balanced Cue I Ever Played With And When You Applied English You Could Feel And Hear It.
Just An Old Timer Musing....good Luck.....try Out That Palmer
Hey Nosajo3,
I Bought A Palmer In 1960 At Oakland Billiard Supply In California.it Had Mother Of Pearl And There Was A Plastic Or Phenolic Ring Above The Bottom Rubber Of The Butt That You Could Insert A Piece Of Paper With Your Name On It.
I'm Sure I Paid No More Than $100.00 For It At That Time.got Mad Once And Threw It On The Floor And Cracked The Butt. Ended Up Giving It To Someone.
It Changed Hands A Few Times And The Current Owner Had It Repaired And Refinished. It Is Worth Mega-bucks According To The Catalogs.
But The True Value Of Anything Is How Much Cash Someone Will Give You For It Regardless Of What The Catalogs Say.
Course This Is 40 Years Later And Maybe It's Value Is Based On Age?
Do Yourself A Favor And The Next Time You See The Guy With The Ugly Palmer Ask Him To Let You Hit A Few Balls With It. Am Sure You Will Be Pleasantly Surprised.
John Robinson Of Hayward California (presently Robinson Cues) Was Doing Mother Of Pearl Inlays In The Late 1950's.his Thing Is The Joint.best Balanced Cue I Ever Played With And When You Applied English You Could Feel And Hear It.
Just An Old Timer Musing....good Luck.....try Out That Palmer
For Bernie,
Palmer passed away during the second catalog era of Palmer cues. His son started the video rental business with pro player Pete Margo during the early 80's. The cues were already being imported at that time frame. There were a few jibronies doing repairs at Palmer during the 80's but no one of mention. His deal with Mail was going to be consultary at best and it never materialized into anything of note. I met him at the VF show a few years ago and he was a very nice guy. As far as Palmers and their value I can honestly say the deluxe or model 20 from the third catalog in all original mint shape maybe a 4500 dollar cue. I have recently sold some lesser graded examples in the 2800-3300 range. This is by far their fanciest "production" cue. Cues they made for famous players could very well get into the 5000 range depening on the detail of workmanship.
canwin: Paradise is the most underrated cuemaker of that time period IMHO. He was instrumental in the designs of that period and was not afraid to try new things. He was one of the first to use plastics in his cues. To be honest, he was a custom cuemaker. I have never seen a cue that was made to a model in his brochure. You will pay more for a Paradise than a Palmer of the same design, same shape etc.. which is how it should be.
Joe
Palmer passed away during the second catalog era of Palmer cues. His son started the video rental business with pro player Pete Margo during the early 80's. The cues were already being imported at that time frame. There were a few jibronies doing repairs at Palmer during the 80's but no one of mention. His deal with Mail was going to be consultary at best and it never materialized into anything of note. I met him at the VF show a few years ago and he was a very nice guy. As far as Palmers and their value I can honestly say the deluxe or model 20 from the third catalog in all original mint shape maybe a 4500 dollar cue. I have recently sold some lesser graded examples in the 2800-3300 range. This is by far their fanciest "production" cue. Cues they made for famous players could very well get into the 5000 range depening on the detail of workmanship.
canwin: Paradise is the most underrated cuemaker of that time period IMHO. He was instrumental in the designs of that period and was not afraid to try new things. He was one of the first to use plastics in his cues. To be honest, he was a custom cuemaker. I have never seen a cue that was made to a model in his brochure. You will pay more for a Paradise than a Palmer of the same design, same shape etc.. which is how it should be.
Joe
canwin said:
Canwin,
We have an all original Diamondking Paradise. Its one of the rarest of the Paradise cues. It has the champion pearl inlay pattern in the rear and all the appropriate inlays. http://www.classiccues.com/cues/kulungian_kollection_1.htm
A comperable all original Bushka or this pedigree might be in the 65k+ range.
The only better Diamond King Kulungian has is an ebony on ebony Spain blanked cue which has 88 inlays and the window and the champion pattern in the back and I would estimate its value in the 10-15k+ range because of the rarity.
We also have these:
http://www.classiccues.com/cues/paradise.htm
I don't know what they have added in the bluebook for Paradise.
Joe