Efren specifically, how does he usually spin the ball? Back-hand, parallel or a mixture of the two? Has anybody stood behind him and got a good look? Seems like he gets a lot of spin(when needed) with little effort and it's very controlled. I know he's hit a million balls but i'm still curious about his and the other Pinoy players technique. Thanks for any input.
Phillipino's and English(spin)
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
Here's a link to what SVB and Efren do to get spin on the cue ball. They both stay close to center, by their own admission, and swipe at the cue ball or use BHE to get side spin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kL9ena6j6M&feature=player_detailpage#t=1713
They also go "up the ladder", like SmoothStroke says, to get a decent amount of follow. They cue low at address and raise their tip up on the final stroke to get their "upstroke".
Best,
Mike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kL9ena6j6M&feature=player_detailpage#t=1713
They also go "up the ladder", like SmoothStroke says, to get a decent amount of follow. They cue low at address and raise their tip up on the final stroke to get their "upstroke".
Best,
Mike
Playing inside the cue ball.
Playing inside the cue ball does not mean a stun stroke, punch stroke, or a flat hit; it is 100% totally not even close.
For some reason there are many that don't understand the concept.
Most times you don't have to use extreme to acquire a little or a lot of spin.
Grip pressure, wrist action and other factors come into play. It's not that difficult at all but I see many people making it difficult.
Playing inside is a simplified way to strike, with the proper stroke technique you can throw 1/4 1/2 3/4 full tip system to the side and measure it in eyelashes. I cringe when I hear 1/4 tip.
You must also have to strike as Efren did on his last shot with heavy right using extreme edges, use the entire cue ball, the complete player, yet staying inside as much as possible.
I will go out on a limb and say in the future many more players will be inside ball and low ball players, eyes are beginning to open.
Stroke Technique, it's not that difficult.
Sincerely: SS
Playing inside the cue ball does not mean a stun stroke, punch stroke, or a flat hit; it is 100% totally not even close.
For some reason there are many that don't understand the concept.
Most times you don't have to use extreme to acquire a little or a lot of spin.
Grip pressure, wrist action and other factors come into play. It's not that difficult at all but I see many people making it difficult.
Playing inside is a simplified way to strike, with the proper stroke technique you can throw 1/4 1/2 3/4 full tip system to the side and measure it in eyelashes. I cringe when I hear 1/4 tip.
You must also have to strike as Efren did on his last shot with heavy right using extreme edges, use the entire cue ball, the complete player, yet staying inside as much as possible.
I will go out on a limb and say in the future many more players will be inside ball and low ball players, eyes are beginning to open.
Stroke Technique, it's not that difficult.
Sincerely: SS
Hi SS,
Since using TOI for the last year or so I've come to 'realeyes' more about 'grip pressure' & how it affects 'the hit' & the reaction of the CB.
Many here will say that that has no effect & that the ball only 'knows' the velocity & location of which it was hit.
Well, some things are just a bit too subtle to put properly into words. They can only be 'felt' & 'realeyesed' when the connection clicks in one's mind.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
That was a good video for playing inside ball. I have not seen that one.
Sincerely: SS
I guess everyone has their theories and beliefs; I have mine and feel very comfortable with myself.
To each their own I guess.
Sincerely: SS
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I think the ideas of hitting inside the cue ball and hitting to the inside of the cue ball, as well as hitting inside spin on the cue ball, cause some confusion when looked at as the same thing. And I probably added to it with that last sentence. 
Best,
Mike
Best,
Mike
Come on Patrick, you know the strokes.
In my book you are a hall of fame poster on this site.
That is a compliment not a sarcastic remark.
Sincerely: SS
Thanks, Smooth, but I really don't know what they mean.
My problem is probably that I don't really believe in "different strokes", but only in different places/speeds to hit the CB (with the same stroke). The exception might be "punch stroke", which I'm guessing is a stroke without much follow through...?
pj
chgo
What is your definition of a stroke?
Back to my original question: how does Efren spin his ball: bhe or parallel? I've got no clue what " playing inside the cueball" means. Sounds weird but if it works for you go for it. In the video it looks like he does a little of both. Shane appears to be using bhe and man can he spin it and still be accurate. Amazing, at least it is to me.
Hope these help. I am sure the search function will find many more descriptions and 6000 versions on you tube.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=177642
Sincerely: SS
One sees spin when the ball is spinning fast relative to it's linear motion & is noticed when the ball 'takes off' from a rail or 'bends' while traveling on the surface.
In a TAR interview, Johnny Archer said, & Shane agreed, that Dennis Orcullo is A Monster, because he gets so much spin on the ball with such little stroke effort. (Spin to Speed Ratio) That allows him to play long without any wearing down.
Argue to your hearts content on how he does that.
Best 2 All,
Rick
In a TAR interview, Johnny Archer said, & Shane agreed, that Dennis Orcullo is A Monster, because he gets so much spin on the ball with such little stroke effort. (Spin to Speed Ratio) That allows him to play long without any wearing down.
Argue to your hearts content on how he does that.
Best 2 All,
Rick
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Stroke: A forward motion of the forearm that moves the cue toward the cue ball.
Good Stroke: A forward motion of the forearm that moves the cue accurately and repeatably to the desired CB contact point at the desired angle and speed (spot/angle/speed).
When I say I don't believe in different strokes, I mean that I believe spot/angle/speed are the only results that matter to the shot and any way they can be accomplished is as good as any other, assuming it's repeatably accurate. Of course, how to have a "repeatably accurate" stroke is a pretty big topic itself.
pj
chgo
Good post. Filipino players -----> rotation games + high humidity ------> masters of spin.
Thanks.
That discussion kinda illustrates my point: the various "kinds" of strokes aren't well defined - they mean different things to different players. At least with the "punch" stroke there seems to be some agreement that it's shorter than other strokes, but other details, including its purpose, differ depending on who's talking.
I think the main difference of opinion about "different" strokes will always be their usefulness. Why have them? What do they do that can't be accomplished with a "regular" stroke? In general, is it best to have different strokes for different jobs, or one stroke that performs well for all purposes? I like the "one stroke" answer, if it's possible, and I think it is.
pj
chgo
I basically agree with your definition, maybe with the exception of the word 'repeatedly' regarding your description of a good stroke.
'Repeatedly' is a bit ambiguous, because it can refer to a successful result, or it can also include the manner in which the stroke is delivered.
I think 'repeatedly' should refer only to a successful result. The same player is often capable of reaching the same result with various types of deliveries. Choosing which delivery to use can depend on the equipment, such as over sized cue balls, light cue balls, worn cloth, humidity, etc.
While others may refer to them as various strokes --- I would agree that they are variations of a stroke.
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Yes, one is the end result and the other is the means to that end result, and they matter in different ways. The end result is the only thing that matters to the shot, but the means to that end are what matter to the player who wants a stroke that can be relied upon.
Many discussions of stroke tend to conflate the two. For example, follow through is a "means to the end" that helps ensure repeatable stroke accuracy, but has no direct effect on the shot itself (since the CB is gone when follow through occurs). Yet many believe it does have a direct effect on the CB (increases spin, for instance).
pj
chgo