physical consequences of cue balance point location

[evergruven]

I figure if one hand is on one end of the cue, and one hand is on the other, where the bp is probably won't make a huge difference
but I don't know for sure, and am curious. say if more weight is in back, could that affect a player's stroke in any way?
would that affect stroke speed or anything else? what if the cue is more balanced towards its center? etc.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

You can find your Cuesbalance point with piece of twins strong enough to support Cue.

Run twine under joint area, slow lift, if Butt don’t come up, move string back, try to achieve perfect balance. Measure with tape measure.


You found balance point, and distance from butt bumper.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Balance point makes a huge difference for the feel of a cue. A more back weighted cue has more of a 'shoots itself' kind of feel and is preferred by the types of players that like to dance the cue through the ball and let physics do most of the work. Personally, I prefer a back weighted cue. I play others as well but they don't feel quite right to me and I do use a bit of a different, shorter, stroke compared to the long free flowing one with my preferred cue. There is a point at which the balance point can get so too far forward for my preferred feel that I won't use the cue at all as it just feels wrong to me. I heard an old school commentator (Grady Matthews maybe?) also mention he prefers back weighted cues bc the forward weighted ones felt to him like they need steering. Again, it is a feel thing and I'm sure there will be players who prefer a balance point far forward of where I like it. But to answer your question, yes, balance point can affect your stroke.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I figure if one hand is on one end of the cue, and one hand is on the other, where the bp is probably won't make a huge difference
but I don't know for sure, and am curious. say if more weight is in back, could that affect a player's stroke in any way?
would that affect stroke speed or anything else? what if the cue is more balanced towards its center? etc.

The balance point position doesn't have any direct physical effect on the stroke or the tip/CB interaction. But of course how it feels can have a psychological effect that might make a difference in your stroke (can't predict what kind of difference).

pj
chgo

 

[FranCrimi]

The balance point position doesn't have any direct physical effect on the stroke or the tip/CB interaction. But of course how it feels can have a psychological effect that might make a difference in your stroke (can't predict what kind of difference).

pj
chgo

Well I think how something feels can also be considered physical. I've had some clients with wobbly tendencies shoot straighter when I would hand them a back-weighted cue. I think it may help keep the hand and arm steadier and on track as opposed to lighter in the back end. I have also found that front-weighted cues help when performing some finesse shots where the focus is on the front end of the cue.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The balance point position doesn't have any direct physical effect on the stroke or the tip/CB interaction. But of course how it feels can have a psychological effect that might make a difference in your stroke (can't predict what kind of difference).

Well I think how something feels can also be considered physical.

That's kinda what I meant by the psychological effect making a difference in your stroke.

I've had some clients with wobbly tendencies shoot straighter when I would hand them a back-weighted cue. I think it may help keep the hand and arm steadier and on track as opposed to lighter in the back end.

It's sometimes noted that adding a rear extension adds some "ballast" that's slightly harder to move sideways, helping to keep the stroke straighter. That's the extreme of changing the balance point...

I have also found that front-weighted cues help when performing some finesse shots where the focus is on the front end of the cue.

Interesting... thanks for the insights.

pj
chgo

 

[evergruven]

Balance point makes a huge difference for the feel of a cue. A more back weighted cue has more of a 'shoots itself' kind of feel and is preferred by the types of players that like to dance the cue through the ball and let physics do most of the work. Personally, I prefer a back weighted cue. I play others as well but they don't feel quite right to me and I do use a bit of a different, shorter, stroke compared to the long free flowing one with my preferred cue. There is a point at which the balance point can get so too far forward for my preferred feel that I won't use the cue at all as it just feels wrong to me. I heard an old school commentator (Grady Matthews maybe?) also mention he prefers back weighted cues bc the forward weighted ones felt to him like they need steering. Again, it is a feel thing and I'm sure there will be players who prefer a balance point far forward of where I like it. But to answer your question, yes, balance point can affect your stroke.

interesting stuff here, thanks
for me, the back-weighted cue does the opposite- I have to consciously keep it in line
I think that's because I naturally like holding the butt pretty far forward
but it's hard to do that with a lot of weight in the back of the cue
mind if I ask where you grip the cue in the back?

 

[evergruven]

I have also found that front-weighted cues help when performing some finesse shots where the focus is on the front end of the cue.

this makes sense to me, I think because you don't need a big stroke on a finesse shot
so it's helpful to have the weight be forward already, instead of having to bring it forward
is that what you've found or ?

 

[Wolven]

interesting stuff here, thanks
for me, the back-weighted cue does the opposite- I have to consciously keep it in line
I think that's because I naturally like holding the butt pretty far forward
but it's hard to do that with a lot of weight in the back of the cue
mind if I ask where you grip the cue in the back?

Same here. I like front heavy cue which steers itself, while back heavy cue feels like it has to be held in line. My grip is at the back end of wrap most of the time.

 

[evergruven]

It's sometimes noted that adding a rear extension adds some "ballast" that's slightly harder to move sideways, helping to keep the stroke straighter.

I'm still figuring it out, but my ballast seems to be further forward than a lot of players'
I have theories about this, but I admit it puzzles me to have so much weight, so far back
as you suggested tho, feel is a big part of all this..I just didn't know if there was other science to it

thanks all for the replies-

 

[evergruven]

Same here. I like front heavy cue which steers itself, while back heavy cue feels like it has to be held in line. My grip is at the back end of wrap most of the time.

interesting you grip towards the back of the cue and still feel this way, since most of the cue's weight lives in front of your butt hand
do you use a long bridge? open-hand?

 

[Wolven]

interesting you grip towards the back of the cue and still feel this way, since most of the cue's weight lives in front of your butt hand
do you use a long bridge? open-hand?

Always open bridge, about 10 to 14 inches. I like that area to be flat, if there is a rise in taper there, then I cannot play with it. How about you?

 

[evergruven]

Always open bridge, about 10 to 14 inches. I like that area to be flat, if there is a rise in taper there, then I cannot play with it. How about you?

often, but not *always* open bridge
I like keeping it flat, too, tho
and I know part of the reason I like the bp a bit more forward, is because I like using an open bridge
tho if the stick was wobbling any, I wouldn't like the idea of having to keep the shaft stable by closing my hand around it

10-14 inches seems long-ish, but if I felt more comfortable with my cue, I might like longer than what I'm using..

 

[phreaticus]

Interesting discussion. When I started playing again after decades away from the game, I also dug into this topic a bit. I have long arms, big hands, and grip the cue at the end of the buttcap, with a longish stroke and definitely prefer reward balance point, about 17" from the buttcap and also older style fatter butts in the 1.28-1.30" diameter range. But it seems that most modern cues are more neutral or forward balanced with tipping point in the 18.5-19.5" zone and slimmer butts in the 1.25" diameter zone. Most older full splice, house cues etc - tended to have fatter butts and be more reward balanced and snooker players tend to prefer 17-18" balance points. Here's a snooker forum discussion on the topic. It does seem true that for finesse shots off the rail etc - heavier shaft can be helpful. Seems to be no perfect answer, it's all down to one's personal anatomy and subjective preferences like most attributes of a cue. Perhaps pool will evolve to be like golf, and we end up with a bag of cues for different types of shots - seems most players are already have break cues, jump cues and playing cues, so it's not too far fetched of a concept

Finally, this article is the most interesting info I've found on the topic. I think its from Bob Meucci from many years ago and argues quite strongly for rearward balanced cues.

Cheers

 

[evergruven]

it's all down to one's personal anatomy and subjective preferences like most attributes of a cue.

word up. depending on who's using the cue, certain cue aspects are surely more important than others
which is why I agree this discussion is interesting..thanks for joining in, and with links!

 

[FranCrimi]

That's kinda what I meant by the psychological effect making a difference in your stroke.




pj
chgo

Maybe in some cases you can consider feel as psychological, but I think in the case of weight distribution, it may not be psychological. For example: A player I'm working with has a wobbly stroke. I go to the rack and take down a back-heavy Dufferin house cue, which are known for being back-weighted, and hand it to him. Suddenly his arm isn't as wobbly as before. I think that's a physical change in his arm swing due to the extra weight in the back of the cue. He didn't have time to process any thoughts about the different cue. It was barely a two minutes from the first cue to the second cue.

 

[FranCrimi]

this makes sense to me, I think because you don't need a big stroke on a finesse shot
so it's helpful to have the weight be forward already, instead of having to bring it forward
is that what you've found or ?

I think of it more as having less weight in the back end helping with finesse shots. But yes, it could also be the extra weight in front helping too.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Maybe in some cases you can consider feel as psychological, but I think in the case of weight distribution, it may not be psychological. For example: A player I'm working with has a wobbly stroke. I go to the rack and take down a back-heavy Dufferin house cue, which are known for being back-weighted, and hand it to him. Suddenly his arm isn't as wobbly as before. I think that's a physical change in his arm swing due to the extra weight in the back of the cue. He didn't have time to process any thoughts about the different cue. It was barely a two minutes from the first cue to the second cue.

Yes, more rear weight, especially if added past the grip hand, tends to stabilize the stroke (the "ballast" effect) - that's been talked about here some. I'm surprised that normal balance point differences can have much effect, but I'll take your word for it.

pj
chgo

 

[Wolven]

Yes, more rear weight, especially if added past the grip hand, tends to stabilize the stroke (the "ballast" effect) - that's been talked about here some. I'm surprised that normal balance point differences can have much effect, but I'll take your word for it.

pj
chgo

Extra weight in the back, to me it feels like the weight is pushing against my grip hand, sometimes sideways.
Weight in front of grip hand, feels like the cue wants to move forward by itself and my hand just follows it.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

No two Cues are same, even if both balance pointis the same spot in measurement from bottom of butt cap.

I have two Titlist conversions that are about equal as equal. Balance point is like 1/16” same.

Both feel different on different days, why who knows.