Qualifying for APA Nationals with multiple teams

TheNewSharkster

TheNewSharkster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
***This is not a APA Bashing tread. I just want clarity on this subject***

Situation:
Player A plays on two APA 8ball teams. He qualifies for the National Team Championship with both teams. APA pays each team X amount of dollars for "Travel Assistance". Since player A qualified on two teams he only receives "Travel Assistance" for 1 of the two 2 teams he plays on.

Question:
Where does this money go? Since this is funded by the players league fees shouldn't the payout not be dependant on how many teams the player qualified on?
 
I don't think it's the APA that pays out at the local level, it's the LO. In our area every team that qualifies gets a fixed amount of cash and it's all the same. If you qualify on two or three teams each team gets an envelope and it's up to the players to work out how it gets used in the travel part. I don't know what your teams get, but it seems to me that your LO just found a way to put a few extra bucks into his pocket
 
AFAIK..

The way it works in my area is that top teams receive X amount, which is to cover airfare/lodging. If you are on more than one team, you're obviously due for a slice from two pies. If you make it to singles in 8 and 9, you get the travel allowance from each.

I could be wrong.. I often am. :o
 
It does differ from area to area. Some do it by team, in which case there are two pies, and others do it by individual, in which case there's only one pie.

If it's done by individual, and a player qualifies on two teams, it's not that there's extra money left over that has to go somewhere. It's just less money taken from the area's players fund. The LO doesn't pocket anything. The same situation would apply if a team qualified for nationals with fewer than the maximum eight players.

Frankly, it's much easier to do it by team, and the LO's who do it by individual are doing more work to stretch the players fund, eventually providing more for the players.
 
APA Operator said:
It does differ from area to area. Some do it by team, in which case there are two pies, and others do it by individual, in which case there's only one pie.

If it's done by individual, and a player qualifies on two teams, it's not that there's extra money left over that has to go somewhere. It's just less money taken from the area's players fund. The LO doesn't pocket anything. The same situation would apply if a team qualified for nationals with fewer than the maximum eight players.

Frankly, it's much easier to do it by team, and the LO's who do it by individual are doing more work to stretch the players fund, eventually providing more for the players.
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If it is done by team does the LO pay the same amount to each team regardless of common players or not?
 
Celophanewrap said:
I don't think it's the APA that pays out at the local level, it's the LO. In our area every team that qualifies gets a fixed amount of cash and it's all the same. If you qualify on two or three teams each team gets an envelope and it's up to the players to work out how it gets used in the travel part. I don't know what your teams get, but it seems to me that your LO just found a way to put a few extra bucks into his pocket
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In San Diegos APA you would receive the money for each team you were on as mentioned. So if you had two teams youd get two checks. Imagine if you got their for 8 and 9. Then you'd get ten days in vegas, then again that could be too much for some.
I went to Nationals in 2009, I had a great time, spent most my winnings and money from the casinos on the several great vendors there.
I hope you enjoy it.
 
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Both my 8 & 9 ball teams...

Qualified to nationals next week, and we have the same roster on both teams. However our LO who pays the travel assistance money (not APA national) pays to individuals ($250) and not to the teams. So because we are the same players on both 8 & 9 ball, we only received the $250 each one time. I called nationals about this, but they said since its the LO who pays the travel assistance and it's not mandatory, they reserve the right to pay it out how they see fit, so instead of us feeling great about our accomplishment for doing something very rare locally (first time ever) we actually felt cheated. I mean it's not our fault that we won in both 8 & 9 and have the same players on both, they would have paid the $2000 if it was another team, but it's almost like we did them a favor and so they didn't have to end up paying it. I got a bunch of BS IMO from the LO about why they do it this way, and my whole argument was it's one thing when it's one player that's on two different teams, but to have two seperate teams that played in two seperate city championship and won, should receive the prize money for both, regardless if we were the same roster of players on each team. But they still didn't agree or see it that way and ultimately saved $2000...or I should say, we saved them
$2000 for winning in both 8 & 9. Very disappointing, we should have been treated for what we did, but instead felt like we were cheated!!

Best,
Mo
"On The Snap!"
 
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TheNewSharkster said:
If it is done by team does the LO pay the same amount to each team regardless of common players or not?
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In my area I do. I pay the team a set amount for travel assistance, and they decide how to split it up. Sometimes common players get an equal share from both teams, sometimes they don't, but it's not my concern because I don't want the headache.

An operator who goes to the trouble of handling travel assistance for each individual player is doing a lot more work than I am, and since they aren't dealing with their own money anyway (it's all players fund money, whatever doesn't go to travel assistance goes to some other player benefit) they really shouldn't be knocked for being thrifty.
 
hookmehorns said:
Qualified to nationals next week, and we have the same roster on both teams. However our LO who pays the travel assistance money (not APA national) pays to individuals ($250) and not to the teams. So because we are the same players on both 8 & 9 ball, we only received the $250 each one time. I called nationals about this, but they said since its the LO who pays the travel assistance and it's not mandatory, they reserve the right to pay it out how they see fit, so instead of us feeling great about our accomplishment for doing something very rare locally (first time ever) we actually felt cheated. I mean it's not our fault that we won in both 8 & 9 and have the same players on both, they would have paid the $2000 if it was another team, but it's almost like we did them a favor and so they didn't have to end up paying it. I got a bunch of BS IMO from the LO about why they do it this way, and my whole argument was it's one thing when it's one player that's on two different teams, but to have two seperate teams that played in two seperate city championship and won, should receive the prize money for both, regardless if we were the same roster of players on each team. But they still didn't agree or see it that way and ultimately saved $2000...or I should say, we saved them
$2000 for winning in both 8 & 9. Very disappointing, we should have been treated for what we did, but instead felt like we were cheated!!

Best,
Mo
"On The Snap!"
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First, it's not prize money, it's travel assistance. That said, a player who qualifies in both 8-Ball and 9-Ball probably should be eligible for more travel assistance.

Typical travel expenses are (1) airfare, (2) hotel, and (3) food. If you qualify on two teams in the same event, none of those expenses goes up. If you qualify on an 8-Ball team and on a 9-Ball team, (2) and (3) go up since your stay is longer.

There are a number of ways to look at this. Here's one. Airfare for most players is probably two-thirds of the expense if you share a room with three others and eat cheap. Let's say hotel and food double if you're there for both events. The total cost of the trip goes up by one-third in this case. To me, it would be reasonable to increase the travel assistance for anyone participating in both events by one-third, or $83. Instead of $250, they would get $333.

It's also reasonable to me to give each player participating in both events $500 in travel assistance. Airfare, hotel, and food are going to total more than $500, and the money is in the budget since you have to budget for the case where there are no common players.

Another way to look at it is the $250 goes towards airfare and you're only taking one flight no matter how long you stay. This seems to be the approach your operator has taken. Unreasonable? Maybe, maybe not. I bet there are plenty of teams who would happily cover their own travel expenses to take your place in one of those events, and they wouldn't feel cheated at all.

Each operator has their own reasons for how they set up the budget for travel assistance. I can't speak for your operator, but I can certainly understand some of the reasons they have for doing it the way they do.
 
hookmehorns said:
Qualified to nationals next week, and we have the same roster on both teams. However our LO who pays the travel assistance money (not APA national) pays to individuals ($250) and not to the teams. So because we are the same players on both 8 & 9 ball, we only received the $250 each one time. I called nationals about this, but they said since its the LO who pays the travel assistance and it's not mandatory, they reserve the right to pay it out how they see fit, so instead of us feeling great about our accomplishment for doing something very rare locally (first time ever) we actually felt cheated. I mean it's not our fault that we won in both 8 & 9 and have the same players on both, they would have paid the $2000 if it was another team, but it's almost like we did them a favor and so they didn't have to end up paying it. I got a bunch of BS IMO from the LO about why they do it this way, and my whole argument was it's one thing when it's one player that's on two different teams, but to have two seperate teams that played in two seperate city championship and won, should receive the prize money for both, regardless if we were the same roster of players on each team. But they still didn't agree or see it that way and ultimately saved $2000...or I should say, we saved them
$2000 for winning in both 8 & 9. Very disappointing, we should have been treated for what we did, but instead felt like we were cheated!!

Best,
Mo
"On The Snap!"
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I think you and the OP have both been screwed, especially you. If you're there for 8 and 9 you're there twice as long, it makes sense that your expenses are twice as much. I don't always agree with our LO but this is one place where the LO is more than fair. We qualify 8 teams, the LO prepares 8 envelopes with the same amount of cash in each, each team that wins gets the schpeal about the tournament and the rules, trophys and a plaque for our home location and an envelope. If you qualify twice, or three times or four times, each theam gets an envelope. In our case we leave it to the captain (and Mrs. Captain) to make the arrangements, after that if we want to upgrade the room it's on us individually with points or on our own dime. There's always enough left for dinner and a drinkin' night or two. If someone has flight points or flight coupons or free rooms to contribute if we want, then thats always helpful but not mandatory.
I can see you being upset and my personal opinion is that you haven't been treated fairly, but its really tough for some people to stick a crowbar in their wallet and pry out a few bucks, especially when the rules say they don't have to. Best of luck in LV, hope to see you there
 
Celophanewrap said:
I think you and the OP have both been screwed, especially you. If you're there for 8 and 9 you're there twice as long, it makes sense that your expenses are twice as much. I don't always agree with our LO but this is one place where the LO is more than fair. We qualify 8 teams, the LO prepares 8 envelopes with the same amount of cash in each, each team that wins gets the schpeal about the tournament and the rules, trophys and a plaque for our home location and an envelope. If you qualify twice, or three times or four times, each theam gets an envelope. In our case we leave it to the captain (and Mrs. Captain) to make the arrangements, after that if we want to upgrade the room it's on us individually with points or on our own dime. There's always enough left for dinner and a drinkin' night or two. If someone has flight points or flight coupons or free rooms to contribute if we want, then thats always helpful but not mandatory.
I can see you being upset and my personal opinion is that you haven't been treated fairly, but its really tough for some people to stick a crowbar in their wallet and pry out a few bucks, especially when the rules say they don't have to. Best of luck in LV, hope to see you there
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Thank you! I'll be easy to find, starting Saturday I'll be working at the Lucasi Hybrid booth. Come by and say hello, try out a cue or two and sign up for a chance to win a LH cue. :thumbup:

Best,
Mo
 
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