Question to Snooker gurus about 15, 10, and 6 RED balls racks

N

naji

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello Snookers gurus,

Like to know more about why some times snooker is played with less than 15 balls, is this a handicap, i played a game with 10 red, it was harder to run balls! and i assume much harder with only six reds! Can you shed some light. Thanks much,

Has Ronnie did max run with less reds!
 
naji said:
Has Ronnie did max run with less reds!
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I'm not quite sure I understand the question, but every maximum break has to involve taking the final six reds with blacks and then the colours. Also, the way breaks tend to work out, and with the player's primary focus obviously being on winning the frame first, I would guess it's not uncommon for the final six reds to involve some pretty difficult ones which were ignored earlier on in the break - see the final red of Ronnie's maximum against Ding at last year's Welsh open for an example.
 
Gimmicks!!! :D:D:D
Real snooker requires 15 reds.
Unlike pool, snooker isn't searching for a better game. :D

To quote that definitive source of all knowledge, Wikipedia:

A six-red tournament was held during the 2009 World Snooker Championship as a sideshow, involving one-frame knockout matches. In the final veteran Tony Knowles defeated 13-year-old Ross Muir 52–18.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-red_snooker

Some people play snooker on smaller tables and use 10 reds to reduce the congestion in the early stages of a match.

Snooker balls come in various sizes, for different sized tables. The smallest I've seen available were 1 3/8". So reducing the number of balls really isn't necessary to adapt to the size of table.

Stephen Hendry started playing snooker on a kid's 3 x 6 table his parents gave him for Christmas. In pool, this would be a barbox, and most players aspire no larger. Hendry mastered the 12 x 6: seven world championships.

Only two 6 red world championships have been held - in Thailand:

http://www.snooker.org/res/index.asp?event=270

http://www.snooker.org/res/index.asp?event=179

Ronnie didn't play - hates long-distance travel.
 
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Scaramouche said:
Gimmicks!!! :D:D:D
Real snooker requires 15 reds.
Unlike pool, snooker isn't searching for a better game. :D

To quote that definitive source of all knowledge, Wikipedia:

A six-red tournament was held during the 2009 World Snooker Championship as a sideshow, involving one-frame knockout matches. In the final veteran Tony Knowles defeated 13-year-old Ross Muir 52–18.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-red_snooker

Some people play snooker on smaller tables and use 10 reds to reduce the congestion in the early stages of a match.

Snooker balls come in various sizes, for different sized tables. The smallest I've seen available were 1 3/8". So reducing the number of balls really isn't necessary to adapt to the size of table.

Stephen Hendry started playing snooker on a kid's 3 x 6 table his parents gave him for Christmas. In pool, this would be a barbox, and most players aspire no larger. Hendry mastered the 12 x 6: seven world championships.

Only two 6 red world championships have been held - in Thailand:

http://www.snooker.org/res/index.asp?event=270

http://www.snooker.org/res/index.asp?event=179

Ronnie didn't play - hates long-distance travel.
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Thanks buddy you miss understood me, i rephrase my question.

A friend of mine always wants to play with 6 red frame, i tell him, 15 red frames is better it provides more chance to run balls, he argues! Who is correct?

Is 6 reds, or 10 red frames considered official handicap among snooker stars? Would Ronnie perform as good with lesser red frames?
Also, has there been maximums done with 6, or 10 red frames you know of?

Thanks much.
 
It's not considered a handicap, although if you look at the results from tournaments you do see a lot more upsets. This is because it is a lot easier to run balls with fewer on the table. So where Ronnie and other top players can consistently get in and run 70+ points, all players on tour can mop up 6 reds and colours consistently, which does level the playing field.

It only gets trickier to run balls if both players keep knocking the reds and colours to the cushions. But if they are in the open then it's easier to play position.

Next time you play, try developing reds and colours into pottable positions. Don't just knock everything safe, and you'll find more opportunities to put breaks together.
 
naji said:
Thanks buddy you miss understood me, i rephrase my question.

A friend of mine always wants to play with 6 red frame, i tell him, 15 red frames is better it provides more chance to run balls, he argues! Who is correct?

Is 6 reds, or 10 red frames considered official handicap among snooker stars? Would Ronnie perform as good with lesser red frames?
Also, has there been maximums done with 6, or 10 red frames you know of?

Thanks much.
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Bizarre questions :eek:

The fewer balls on the table, the easier it is to pot and get position because there are fewer balls to interfere.

A maximum run:
15 reds - 36 pots - 147 points
10 reds - 26 pots - 107 points
6 reds - 18 pots - 75 points

So anyone who can make a 147 despite contending with more traffic problems than occur with a 6 or 10 ball rack can make 75 points, and 107 points.
Since Ronnie has run the highest number of 147s in competition, one assumes that he would also be superior in running 107s or 75s, if he chose to do so, and if records were kept to settle arguments.

Since snooker is alternate break, why would the number of reds in the rack be considered a form of handicapping?

I have never encountered official records of for 10 ball snooker.
I have never encountered official records for 6 ball except the two world championships.
 
Scaramouche said:
Bizarre questions :eek:

The fewer balls on the table, the easier it is to pot and get position because there are fewer balls to interfere.

A maximum run:
15 reds - 36 pots - 147 points
10 reds - 26 pots - 107 points
6 reds - 18 pots - 75 points

So anyone who can make a 147 despite contending with more traffic problems than occur with a 6 or 10 ball rack can make 75 points, and 107 points.
Since Ronnie has run the highest number of 147s in competition, one assumes that he would also be superior in running 107s or 75s, if he chose to do so, and if records were kept to settle arguments.

Since snooker is alternate break, why would the number of reds in the rack be considered a form of handicapping?

I have never encountered official records of for 10 ball snooker.
I have never encountered official records for 6 ball except the two world championships.
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Thanks Scaramouche; my thinking is somewhat coming from 8 ball pool game, the easiest game due to many choices for shots should you miss the intended CB position, you simply choose another ball if available and get back to position. In snooker 15 REDs balls on the table offer more choices of RED , and more reds could be open where as if they were 6 or 10 RED availability is reduced, hence the break run could be halted due to lack of position correction REDs!

Cameron Smith thanks for the advise it is great one.
 
Great coaching game

Playing snooker with a rack of 6 or 10 reds originated in the 'club' environment of the snooker world. The number of people wishing to use the tables was more than the amount of tables available. It was easier to reduce the rack size rather than start timing games. More games could be played and the patrons were happy.
It is usually a little more difficult with less balls even though the lack of 'traffic' might make a novice think otherwise. The games start a little colder due to the lack of reds. Both players tend to try and take advantage of the reduced pack by attempting snookers and unlike a full pack, an open ball is less likely to appear. This has also led to the timing of 6 red tournaments to encourage early long potting.
6 red is quite popular with coaches of junior players because it allows them to enforce the idea of the importance of the snooker aspect, rather than most young players idea that potting out is imperative.
Even with the difficulty of less balls, big breaks are often made. There was actually a world first 83 break made by Wael Talaat at the recent IBSF World 6 red tournament in Egypt last month. There were also 3 x 'maximum' 75 breaks.
 
mark187187 said:
I think a lot depends on who's playing. If I'm playing a quick game for fun I'll tend to get the pack open fairly quickly. If I am playing competitively I'm not going to want to give my opponent any easy chances, so I'm probably going to break conservatively and pick off the loose reds before opening the pack. Because of this I don't necessarily think 15 red snooker gives you as many options as you might think. Sure if you break like you do in 8 ball things are going to be open, but this isn't how snooker is played. I think of snooker more like straight pool, but slightly more complicated due to having to get on a colour between reds.

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
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Mark, not sure how experienced you are with snooker, if you only have about 1/2 a pocket width for a red, hitting hard like pool usually results in more misses than makes, hence playing position is at times difficult. More reds on the table offers lots of options. Just like straight pool so many shot options, it makes pocketing so easy and runs are high.


RackOnTour thank you very much you made a lot of sense, from now on i will only play with 15 red..
 
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mark187187 said:
My point was that snooker players don't just slam the reds open pn the break. Therefore there aren't always a lot of choices available until you start playing to canon and break open clusters. In 6 ball snooker the balls are open within a couple of shots. Also, with 15 balls at one end of the table you tend to get lots of balls preventing other balls being potted.

Oh, and I've been playing snooker for about 25 years, and haven't missed a televised tournament in about 20 years. I have Eurosport, so that's about 20 tournaments a year. I also go to tournaments when I have the money. Most recently the Crucible, UK Championship and Masters.

I know my snooker.

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Thanks much Mark, I will do 15 reds next time and will report back.
 
I personally don't class anything other than all 15 reds and 6 colours to be snooker. They may use the same rules, but its not the same. Its like playing straight pool with a rack of 9. 8.1 doesn't have the same ring to it.

If you are seriously interested in snooker, and wish to play it and become decent at it, playing with anything less than 15 reds is counter productive in my eyes.
 
naji said:
Hello Snookers gurus,

Like to know more about why some times snooker is played with less than 15 balls, is this a handicap, i played a game with 10 red, it was harder to run balls! and i assume much harder with only six reds! Can you shed some light. Thanks much,
Click to expand...

Playing with less or more reds definitely has meaning when gambling. From the answers given so far in this thread one would assume that nobody who's posted so far does gamble at the game.

ONB
 
The two YouTube demo videos of Willie Thorne that you posted (Mark187187) are truly remarkable. One of the best snooker finds and instructional pieces I've ever seen! Thank you for the post.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Old Nine Baller said:
Playing with less or more reds definitely has meaning when gambling. From the answers given so far in this thread one would assume that nobody who's posted so far does gamble at the game.

ONB
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Snooker isn't rife with amateur gambling, professionals gambling amongst each other or anything of the sort that has severely held back and tarnished the reputation of pool over the years. Its massively tournament structured, with big payouts, and payouts that give the players not in the elite group financial stability. So it makes sense to not bother gambling in games with fewer balls, when the aim is to one day play on the tour in tournament conditions. It is a game of professionalism of the highest standard. It has a rich history, and players stand by this and act in a gentlemanly manner. There are exceptions, and Stephen Lee comes to mind, but pool can learn a hell of a lot from how snooker and its players conduct themselves.

Those who believe people who post something that doesn't agree with them or dont gamble at the game, and are by some way lesser than them and dont know what they're talking about because they do not gamble are what is wrong with pool.
 
Old Nine Baller said:
Playing with less or more reds definitely has meaning when gambling. From the answers given so far in this thread one would assume that nobody who's posted so far does gamble at the game.

ONB
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Pidge said:
Snooker isn't rife with amateur gambling, professionals gambling amongst each other or anything of the sort that has severely held back and tarnished the reputation of pool over the years. Its massively tournament structured, with big payouts, and payouts that give the players not in the elite group financial stability. So it makes sense to not bother gambling in games with fewer balls, when the aim is to one day play on the tour in tournament conditions. It is a game of professionalism of the highest standard. It has a rich history, and players stand by this and act in a gentlemanly manner. There are exceptions, and Stephen Lee comes to mind, but pool can learn a hell of a lot from how snooker and its players conduct themselves.

Those who believe people who post something that doesn't agree with them or dont gamble at the game, and are by some way lesser than them and dont know what they're talking about because they do not gamble are what is wrong with pool.
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I was responding to the original poster's questions. To whit;Like to know more about why some times snooker is played with less than 15 balls, is this a handicap.

I simply answered the question, I inferred nothing except people probably don't gamble at Snooker if they don't already know the significance of playing with fewer cherries.

For those who don't know or understand, being spotted 12 points with 15 cherries is just a little different from being spotted 12 points with 1 cherry. The more cherries on the table the more points that can be run(by the better player, usually) and the less weight you are receiving.

ONB
 
mark187187 said:
15 reds is the way to go. If you want a good watch, try and find the 'Ronnie O'Sullivan show' online. It was on Eurosport earlier this year and will probably be on YouTube. He gives some good advice on break building.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwz1bMn8K1M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdc2-2MMj7Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofVVy3vHP6E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SxySVif_Lw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5yHBo02-dQ
 
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