Refinishing stained cue. Risk of sanding removing the stain?

[JohnsonJ]

So I just picked up a used Mezz sneaky pete, where half of the butt is brown stained maple. I am wanting to refinish the whole butt, but I am worried about the stain getting removed whilst sanding it down.

I am wondering if anyone could tell me how deep do stains usually penetrate into the wood? I was thinking of sanding down the whole diameter of the butt by about 0.5 mm (0.02 in) to get the dents out. Would this risk completely removing the stain, or would it be close to negligible?

Of course I will also add a drop of water here and there beforehand, to try and get the dented butt grains to pop back out, so as to sand the butt down as little as possible.

I was thinking of starting with P500 grit sandpaper (360 in US numbers?).

 

[Sheldon]

Unless you remove all the stain and/or are able to re-stain it, the results will likely not be very good.
Sounds like good practice for you to see what it will take.
If a customer brings me a cue like this, I usually refuse the job.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Is the stain terminology consistent? I've seen stains that are similar to tinted transparent paint, and some that soak in like oils, and dyes that fully soak in and do not actually leave a "finish".

 

[Kim Bye]

Refinishing stained cues is tricky and it doesn't take much sanding to remove the stain. How deep the stain penetrates depends on the product used and how thin it is, but you will have to deal with restaining the cue for sure and it's always hard to predict how successful the end result will be. As @Sheldon said it's a cue it might be smart to refuse or atleast tell the customer straight up that there are no guarantees on a job like that and that you can either proceed with the customers blessing after a written consent with a full understanding of the challenges or just do spot repairs and explain that's the safest route with a stained cue.

 

[JohnsonJ]

Thank you all, your comments helped me come to decide on the following approach:

I will just remove the clearcoat, steam out the dents I want to pop back out, and refinish it without any actual sanding of the cue (besides a P2500 polish). I'm not willing to risk needing to restain the cue, as the chances of it coming out looking well, for me, are probably slim.

 

[Michael Webb]

Thank you all, your comments helped me come to decide on the following approach:

I will just remove the clearcoat, steam out the dents I want to pop back out, and refinish it without any actual sanding of the cue (besides a P2500 polish). I'm not willing to risk needing to restain the cue, as the chances of it coming out looking well, for me, are probably slim.

Please post before and after Pictures.

 

[JohnsonJ]

Will do.

 

[tg_vegas]

This job is exactly like a recent one that I wish I had declined. I took a "simple" tip and cleanup job on a black shaft from someone who I thought was a friend. I was doing the work for free as she was a financially challenged. The tip was straight forward, the ferrule cleaned up just fine. The shaft was a bit rough so I decided to hit it with some 800, and planned to polish it from there. Problem... about 10 seconds after the 800 hit the black finish, it revealed a white looking base. I called the customer and explained the situation. She was thrilled, and said she always wanted a white cue. I took off all of the black paint, polished it out, and when I gave it the her she actually cried and said how beautiful it was. But wait: two weeks later she accuses me of swapping shafts and that this shaft is much fatter and doesn't shoot as well as the shaft she gave me.... says I stole her shaft and gave her a cheap replacement.

Since then, I always take before, during, and after pictures!!!

 

[SSDiver2112]

Thank you all, your comments helped me come to decide on the following approach:

I will just remove the clearcoat, steam out the dents I want to pop back out, and refinish it without any actual sanding of the cue (besides a P2500 polish). I'm not willing to risk needing to restain the cue, as the chances of it coming out looking well, for me, are probably slim.

How will you remove the clearcoat without sanding?

 

[tomatoshooter]

This job is exactly like a recent one that I wish I had declined. I took a "simple" tip and cleanup job on a black shaft from someone who I thought was a friend. I was doing the work for free as she was a financially challenged. The tip was straight forward, the ferrule cleaned up just fine. The shaft was a bit rough so I decided to hit it with some 800, and planned to polish it from there. Problem... about 10 seconds after the 800 hit the black finish, it revealed a white looking base. I called the customer and explained the situation. She was thrilled, and said she always wanted a white cue. I took off all of the black paint, polished it out, and when I gave it the her she actually cried and said how beautiful it was. But wait: two weeks later she accuses me of swapping shafts and that this shaft is much fatter and doesn't shoot as well as the shaft she gave me.... says I stole her shaft and gave her a cheap replacement.

Since then, I always take before, during, and after pictures!!!

So the job went well but the customer complained. I thought the refinish itself would be the disaster. Maybe, the light colored shaft is visually fatter. Not shooting as well? Maybe the different sight picture is throwing off her game. Even though I do shoot with CF, when I was using my spare wood shaft I found that the wood shaft was easier to see with my peripheral vision, and if the light was off to the side a bit, I didn't have the highlight running down my shaft off center. Both issues are easily surmountable but it was nice having a better margin of error is I get careless.

 

[Michael Webb]

So the job went well but the customer complained. I thought the refinish itself would be the disaster. Maybe, the light colored shaft is visually fatter. Not shooting as well? Maybe the different sight picture is throwing off her game. Even though I do shoot with CF, when I was using my spare wood shaft I found that the wood shaft was easier to see with my peripheral vision, and if the light was off to the side a bit, I didn't have the highlight running down my shaft off center. Both issues are easily surmountable but it was nice having a better margin of error is I get careless.

The job didn't go well.
Just my opinion, don't sand painted shafts!
Do the tip, clean the ferrule
Then have a nice day!

 

[JohnsonJ]

How will you remove the clearcoat without sanding?

Of course it will need to be sanded, but it will be kept to a minimum. I plan on sanding through it very slowly with very fine grit sandpaper, and once I get to the bare wood on the non-stained half of the cue, I'll know from which point on to use basically polishing grade sandpaper on the stained part, to take off as little as possible. It will be a nice learning experience no matter how it ends, as it's my own playing cue. Dents on a cue drive me far more crazy than they should, especially if they're made by the previous owner.

I'm currently saving up for a cue lathe, because there's some other things I want to fix on my cue whilst refinishing it, so I don't need to do it twice, so it will be a while before I post a before and after, but it will be posted, I promise.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Of course it will need to be sanded, but it will be kept to a minimum. I plan on sanding through it very slowly with very fine grit sandpaper, and once I get to the bare wood on the non-stained half of the cue, I'll know from which point on to use basically polishing grade sandpaper on the stained part, to take off as little as possible. It will be a nice learning experience no matter how it ends, as it's my own playing cue. Dents on a cue drive me far more crazy than they should, especially if they're made by the previous owner.

I'm currently saving up for a cue lathe, because there's some other things I want to fix on my cue whilst refinishing it, so I don't need to do it twice, so it will be a while before I post a before and after, but it will be posted, I promise.

I think what @SSDiver2112 is getting at is there is very little chance that you will remove the clear without damaging the stain and signature.

I don't know how much experience you have working with wood, but I doubt that you will be happy with the results.

I expect you would be better off filling the dings with CA and polishing when filled. Done right there will be little noticeable evidence of any damage.

 

[JohnsonJ]

If it were just dings I'd do it as you mentioned. The issue is, and I have no idea how the previous owner managed this, that the lacquer basically has a few ''deep'' cuts into it, 360 degrees around the cue. So I set my mind on a complete refinish. And the bottom of the butt, the piece of plastic where the bumper threads in is split, so I'm wanting to cut that off, thread a new one on, cut to size, and refinish the whole thing. I will try to have the ''Mezz cues'' signature cnc engraved into the newly installed plastic part though and I'll fill it with paint, so we will see how that goes. I imagine the worst case scenario is that I need to restain the cue, and maybe install the plastic bumper piece twice if I mess up the engraving.

 

[JohnsonJ]

The reason for me opening the thread was to see what the chances are that I need to restain the cue, so that I can get mentally prepared for it, which you guys helped answer. Thank you all for that, you did an excellent job in explaining everything.

 

[SSDiver2112]

I have seen severe cracking of the finish before with some of the older McDermott cues. A guy brought me one recently. I contacted McDermott on the off chance they might warranty it but no.
About $290 for them to do it. I told him I would redo the shaft and it would still be a playable cue. Just not as pretty.

 

[Michael Webb]

I have seen severe cracking of the finish before with some of the older McDermott cues. A guy brought me one recently. I contacted McDermott on the off chance they might warranty it but no.
About $290 for them to do it. I told him I would redo the shaft and it would still be a playable cue. Just not as pretty.

View attachment 771300



View attachment 771301

Yes Sir
Looks like McD!
Finish is real thick, and not bonded.

 

[Michael Webb]

The reason for me opening the thread was to see what the chances are that I need to restain the cue, so that I can get mentally prepared for it, which you guys helped answer. Thank you all for that, you did an excellent job in explaining everything.

Everything starts with PATIENCE!

 

[MamboFats]

I have seen severe cracking of the finish before with some of the older McDermott cues. A guy brought me one recently. I contacted McDermott on the off chance they might warranty it but no.
About $290 for them to do it. I told him I would redo the shaft and it would still be a playable cue. Just not as pretty.

View attachment 771300



View attachment 771301

This is beautifull work.

Can you talk me through your process?
Did you do the butt also?

thx,

 

[SSDiver2112]

This is beautifull work.

Can you talk me through your process?
Did you do the butt also?

thx,

Pretty simple process for the shaft, but you have to take it slow and be patient. Much of the thicker outer layer could be picked at with a razor blade and peeled off. Once I got it as even as possible I sanded the rest off and re finished.

I did not do the butt. For the amount of work it would be I would charge the same as McDermott and wouldn’t guarantee the stained part would stay the same. For now he is just using it as is.