removing rings from shafts

[mreightball]

I was wondering what is the proper way of removing the rings on a shaft to put on another shaft also the insert or would you use another insert.
And is there a way of removing a bent pin from the butt.
Thanks
Ron
www.abctables.com

 

[Craig Fales]

There's no way to do that without ruining the shaft...just have a cuemaker put a new joint collar on your shaft..same with the insert..as for the bent pin they're no walk in the park....I had replace a few for customers and they're not easy to get out....sometimes...LOLz
________

 

[Sheldon]

I was wondering what is the proper way of removing the rings on a shaft to put on another shaft also the insert or would you use another insert.
And is there a way of removing a bent pin from the butt.

Put the shaft in the lathe with the rings as close to the chuck as you can get them and still be able to cut them off.
Dial indicate it so that it's spinning true, then bore a hole just slightly smaller than the tenon the rings were put on. Sharpen your cutoff tool, and cut the rings off very carefuly so that you won't need to face the backside of them. Cut your new shaft down to within a couple thou of the proper diameter, then cut your tenon and install your new (old) rings.

Use heat to remove the old pin, but be very careful. Too much, and you break down the glue that holds the trim rings or joint piece.

 

[rhncue]

I was wondering what is the proper way of removing the rings on a shaft to put on another shaft also the insert or would you use another insert.
And is there a way of removing a bent pin from the butt.
Thanks
Ron
www.abctables.com

I usually make new rings but if they are oddball then what I often do is as follows:
1. I bore out the new shaft blank to approximately .525 to .550 2" deep.
2. I then chuck up the but in my lathe with the joint about 1" out of the
chuck and I put on the old shaft.
3. I then cut the shaft off a little longer than 2" from the bottom of the
deco-ring.
4. I then turn this stub down to the same size as the hole that I bored
into the new shaft blank, trim to length and glue the new shaft onto
this stub with the far end of the shaft centered in the tail-stock.
5. I then finish the shaft up in my normal way.

In doing it this way the same deco-ring and insert is used and they are still oriented to the butt the same way as the old shaft was. Now the deco-ring fits perfectly even if the pin is not exactly centered.

Dick

 

[mreightball]

I usually make new rings but if they are oddball then what I often do is as follows:
1. I bore out the new shaft blank to approximately .525 to .550 2" deep.
2. I then chuck up the but in my lathe with the joint about 1" out of the
chuck and I put on the old shaft.
3. I then cut the shaft off a little longer than 2" from the bottom of the
deco-ring.
4. I then turn this stub down to the same size as the hole that I bored
into the new shaft blank, trim to length and glue the new shaft onto
this stub with the far end of the shaft centered in the tail-stock.
5. I then finish the shaft up in my normal way.

In doing it this way the same deco-ring and insert is used and they are still oriented to the butt the same way as the old shaft was. Now the deco-ring fits perfectly even if the pin is not exactly centered.

Dick

Thanks Dick:
What type of glue are you using
Ron
www.abctables.com

 

[Cue Crazy]

In doing it this way the same deco-ring and insert is used and they are still oriented to the butt the same way as the old shaft was. Now the deco-ring fits perfectly even if the pin is not exactly centered.

Dick

Sounds reasonable, but what if the edge of the rings are chipped, or are in need of
Refacing? would'nt that change the orientation when lining the ringwork back up. If you had to make a full turn to line them back up, then you would probably have to remove alot of material to get all the way back around, unless you possibly split it up between facing both butt and shaft. I suppose with some ringwork, you might have the material to do that, but some designs may not look right afterwards if they come out uneven looking. I do Aggree that It would make centering easier, but curious how you would rectify a situation as mentioned if that should come up.

Greg

 

[rhncue]

Sounds reasonable, but what if the edge of the rings are chipped, or are in need of
Refacing? would'nt that change the orientation when lining the ringwork back up. If you had to make a full turn to line them back up, then you would probably have to remove alot of material to get all the way back around, unless you possibly split it up between facing both butt and shaft. I suppose with some ringwork, you might have the material to do that, but some designs may not look right afterwards if they come out uneven looking. I do Aggree that It would make centering easier, but curious how you would rectify a situation as mentioned if that should come up.

Greg

Yes, this could happen but so what. If it needs refaced or what ever the end ring is always a solid color piece of phonelic so you can change that in less than ten minutes and turn it down to fit the joint and the rest of the deco ring. Spending ten minutes or so on a ring is easier than having to spend a few hours to make up a whole tube of deco rings that you may never use again. Having to have to reface it seldom happens as the old shaft is usually a pretty good fit however when boring out the deco-ring for reuse it is a certainty that it will always have to be refaced.

This is one of the reasons I like doing cue repair so much more than building cues. Almost every job is a little different and what works good in one case may not be perfect in another but there are many ways to skin a cat.

Dick

 

[Cue Crazy]

I aggree with you there, definatly more then one way, and repair brings all kinds of brain teasers around, so It is always a learning experience, the same thing that made me curious as to how you deal with this, and if It would defeat the purpose if It needed faced. I guess you still have the pin/insert aligned, and that is definatly a good thing, possibly that may be worth It alone, but like you said not everything is always perfect. The other method is'nt either, and sure has it's share of problems.

I would rather use the old ring work also If It was not cracked, and still usable. Time is always a issue as you mentioned, so another reason I asked you about It. I don't think I've plugged one yet, but have bored and sleeved them, and tapped a new insert, so your method is interesting. I aggree phenolic is tuff, and does'nt chip out the same, but I was refering to the older plastics that are common in some older cues. I have had quite a few joint refinishing jobs where the edges of the rings were chipped out pretty badly, and they really needed refacing anyway, I saved as much as I can with the use of finish or By resleeving a piece, but usually needs atleast a slight facing job afterwards. I love to avoid having to reface, but sometimes there just seems no way around It. Luckily in alot of cases It's solid black, making lining the ringwork up a non issue.
That would be the advantage to what you mentioned if the donor was in good shape, because the pin would automatically line up and save you alot of matching work, and I guess I can think of a few ways to add a piece, and reface it to where it bumps back inline, but I can help but think about how when that glue gets on the middle part of the maple, and needs slightly faced, that It may put you just slighlty out of line on the rings anyhow. Sealing the joint and facing may help I suppose. Guess I just need to try it sometime to see. I will definatly pay attention to that the next time in case the donor is in that good of condition. Usually when I see something like that, the ringwork or faces are not that great, and ocasionally the insert might have an extreme amount of slop in It anyway.

The sleeving method you can kind of set It just ahead of where you want it when glueing It up, and just bump the face in slightly to line them up, but the pin centering can cause some issues in some cases as I'm sure you well know, and that's why you struck My interest. Does'nt matter if you tap the insert dead on, if the butt pin does not match perfectly with the new insert (and most times they don't) then It takes quite a bit more time and effort.

Anyway, Your dead on that not every thing works perfectly for every situation, I've definatly been witness to that so far Myself, so this is another way of attacking the ringwork for me, and I apprietiate you sharing. I 'll have to give It a try next time I get a good donor for It.

Greg

Yes, this could happen but so what. If it needs refaced or what ever the end ring is always a solid color piece of phonelic so you can change that in less than ten minutes and turn it down to fit the joint and the rest of the deco ring. Spending ten minutes or so on a ring is easier than having to spend a few hours to make up a whole tube of deco rings that you may never use again. Having to have to reface it seldom happens as the old shaft is usually a pretty good fit however when boring out the deco-ring for reuse it is a certainty that it will always have to be refaced.

This is one of the reasons I like doing cue repair so much more than building cues. Almost every job is a little different and what works good in one case may not be perfect in another but there are many ways to skin a cat.

Dick

 

[rhncue]

I aggree with you there, definatly more then one way, and repair brings all kinds of brain teasers around, so It is always a learning experience, the same thing that made me curious as to how you deal with this, and if It would defeat the purpose if It needed faced. I guess you still have the pin/insert aligned, and that is definatly a good thing, possibly that may be worth It alone, but like you said not everything is always perfect. The other method is'nt either, and sure has it's share of problems.

I would rather use the old ring work also If It was not cracked, and still usable. Time is always a issue as you mentioned, so another reason I asked you about It. I don't think I've plugged one yet, but have bored and sleeved them, and tapped a new insert, so your method is interesting. I aggree phenolic is tuff, and does'nt chip out the same, but I was refering to the older plastics that are common in some older cues. I have had quite a few joint refinishing jobs where the edges of the rings were chipped out pretty badly, and they really needed refacing anyway, I saved as much as I can with the use of finish or By resleeving a piece, but usually needs atleast a slight facing job afterwards. I love to avoid having to reface, but sometimes there just seems no way around It. Luckily in alot of cases It's solid black, making lining the ringwork up a non issue.
That would be the advantage to what you mentioned if the donor was in good shape, because the pin would automatically line up and save you alot of matching work, and I guess I can think of a few ways to add a piece, and reface it to where it bumps back inline, but I can help but think about how when that glue gets on the middle part of the maple, and needs slightly faced, that It may put you just slighlty out of line on the rings anyhow. Sealing the joint and facing may help I suppose. Guess I just need to try it sometime to see. I will definatly pay attention to that the next time in case the donor is in that good of condition. Usually when I see something like that, the ringwork or faces are not that great, and ocasionally the insert might have an extreme amount of slop in It anyway.

The sleeving method you can kind of set It just ahead of where you want it when glueing It up, and just bump the face in slightly to line them up, but the pin centering can cause some issues in some cases as I'm sure you well know, and that's why you struck My interest. Does'nt matter if you tap the insert dead on, if the butt pin does not match perfectly with the new insert (and most times they don't) then It takes quite a bit more time and effort.

Anyway, Your dead on that not every thing works perfectly for every situation, I've definatly been witness to that so far Myself, so this is another way of attacking the ringwork for me, and I apprietiate you sharing. I 'll have to give It a try next time I get a good donor for It.

Greg

Don't let me mislead you here about re-using deco-rings. I have many tubes of deco-rings made up where I can make 100's and 100's of different combinations of deco-rings and new deco-rings are always preferred when building a new shaft. I only resort to that method when it is a oddball ring or a one of a kind. Many Meucci's seem to fall into this catagory since so many of his newer cues use colorful molded plastic deco-rings which would be very difficult and time consuming to make if you could even find the right materials.

Some one else asked what glue that I use on deco-rings and when installing a shaft blank over a stubb. The answer is G-5 quick setting epoxy. It's distributed by West-Systems. Pretty good stuff and very economical when buying by the gallon. Way less than half the price of Devcon.

 

[hadjcues]

I use the same method as Dick... hardly had any problems with that method... problem is sometimes the owner doesn't want to part with the original shaft, even if it's beyond playability =)

Need to do a lotta sweet talkin' so I could use the rings =)

 

[Cue Crazy]

Don't let me mislead you here about re-using deco-rings. I have many tubes of deco-rings made up where I can make 100's and 100's of different combinations of deco-rings and new deco-rings are always preferred when building a new shaft. I only resort to that method when it is a oddball ring or a one of a kind. Many Meucci's seem to fall into this catagory since so many of his newer cues use colorful molded plastic deco-rings which would be very difficult and time consuming to make if you could even find the right materials.

Some one else asked what glue that I use on deco-rings and when installing a shaft blank over a stubb. The answer is G-5 quick setting epoxy. It's distributed by West-Systems. Pretty good stuff and very economical when buying by the gallon. Way less than half the price of Devcon.

No worries, You did'nt mislead me, I was with you on that one.
I get some import cues ocasionally that I sell to league players that aren't ready to make a bigger investment in a cue yet, and some of them have rings that are a close match for some of the ones you mention. Sometimes I will have someone that wants to buy one of those cues, just for the shaft, because it's alot cheaper then me matching a new blank for them. I try to always stress to them that with those plastic rings they should'nt break with them. I see alot that are cracked from that, so sometimes they still need replaced. Depends on if they can be fixed or not.



The glue I use when time is not a issue is a slower setting, system 3 epoxy, but sometimes I use a quick cure when in a rush. The G-5 is really good also from what I've been told, so I would'nt hesitate to use It either.


Greg