Rolling Or

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rolling Or Harder

I am just wondering how you players out there might handle these types of shots. I know there is a recent thread about rolling the CB but I read about half of it and I didn't see anything in that thread about slow rolling shots. It was basically just how to get a good roll on the CB, not pocketing balls with the slow roll.

So, having said that, I have missed these two shots lately. Both times I tried to slow roll the shot to get position and both times I missed as per the diagram. In the first shot I slightly overcut the 6B and in the 2nd shot I slightly undercut the 5B. Both times the CB didn't seem to go where I thought I hit it, sort of like the old optical illusion.

Would you players have shot them differently? If so, how and why?

r/Mike


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i am not an instructor
but i think your problems are with your stroke and i would work on that as a foundation to your game
that being said you could play both shots with a stroke and not slo roll like this
jmho
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i am not an instructor
but i think your problems are with your stroke and i would work on that as a foundation to your game
that being said you could play both shots with a stroke and not slo roll like this
jmho
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Agree with you on the first diagram. No reason at all that I can see to roll the 6 in. You can hit the end rail like you showed, or even punch it with some stun run through and have the CB slide up for position. In either case, hit it with some authority.

It's tough to say if your second diagram is right, only because we don't know if the CB could actually get behind the 6 ball that's near the rail, or if the 6 would pass in the opposite corner pocket. I would prefer to hit the 5 ball fat and try to cheat the pocket with high inside.
 
Agree with you on the first diagram. No reason at all that I can see to roll the 6 in. You can hit the end rail like you showed, or even punch it with some stun run through and have the CB slide up for position. In either case, hit it with some authority.

It's tough to say if your second diagram is right, only because we don't know if the CB could actually get behind the 6 ball that's near the rail, or if the 6 would pass in the opposite corner pocket. I would prefer to hit the 5 ball fat and try to cheat the pocket with high inside.

i guess you would have to be at the table to know for sure
if you mean high left and hit the 5 fat the left might throw the ball into the point
if you cheat the pocket to allow for the throw you might hit the rail too close to the six to come out for a comfortable shot
i think if the 6 didnt pass the 7 i would make the 5 and draw into the six bumping it towards the corner pocket
regardless
we both agree neither shot needs to be slo rolled...:)
 
Not an instructor, but if we assume your stroke is reliable and the shots are accurately drawn in the diagram, what strikes me about these angles are that they are near the maximum throw angle.

If you normally avoid slow-roll, your instinctive aim may have betrayed you on these two shots.

Throw is greatest with stun. With a rolling cue ball or a shot with english, throw effect decreases as shot speed increases, so it will have the greatest effect with slow-rolling cuts around around the angles you illustrated.

Now, the normal way I would play the five in the diagram would be a slow speed shot with left english to come off the rail away from the 6 to leave more space, and the combination of slow speed and inside spin could well throw the 5 where you indicated. But since you didn't mention using sidespin, I'll assume the way you would ordinarily play that shot if you weren't slow-rolling it would be to go across the table and back for the 6. It may be that the difference in speed between trying to slow-roll it and leave it on the rail rather than going across the table and back two rails affected the amount of throw enough that the 5 hit on the point rather than falling.

On the 6, I can see that if you weren't slow rolling, a good option for getting shape on the 7 would be to stun the 6 in, bounce the CB two rails around the corner pocket and it would come at the 7 in line with the side pocket. If have you a habit of playing shots like that that you may subconsciously aim expecting the 6 to be thrown into the pocket. But a slow rolling shot will have less throw than a stun shot, and that difference could cause the 6 to overcut and hit where you indicated.

Particularly if your set of balls hasn't been cleaned at all and/or it's a very humid environment, this could make throw effect big enough to upset some of these shots you'd normally pocket.

But (and do not take this the wrong way as we all constantly work on our strokes) the more plausible explanation is that since you're not used to slow rolling, your stroke mechanics and feel for your cue delivery may make your cueing a little unsteady when you're trying to baby a shot, and this would hurt you especially on slow-rolls because that's where unintended sidespin will have the greatest effect on the path of the cue ball, causing you to miss your point of aim by just enough to dog the shot. You can think you have your stroke mechanics nailed down because your particular stroking form results in a smooth cue delivery with medium and even very hard shots, but maybe isn't suited (yet) to hitting cleanly with slow shots.

Watch Mosconi Cup videos when they zoom in on the tips of the players cueing at the ball, you'll notice the Americans' tips typically wander all over the place while they're getting ready to hit, yet on 99% of shots they nail it. Many American players have a loose flowing stroke that works best at medium to fast speed and lets them hit big shots with stun and draw without tensing up and are really good at that part of the game. If you watch the Europeans' tips when they're hitting the ball on the other hand, the tip travels in a perfectly straight line in every practice stroke and in their final stroke. It's a more rigid and technical form and in a lot of places you may not notice a real advantage to it,but it holds up better under pressure and with delicate slow speed follows. The Europeans embarrassed team USA last year and many of those matches were lost and won because the Europeans were that much better with their delicate touch shots under pressure, tying up balls in short safeties.

Do you close-bridge? One thing I've had to catch myself with is that when I'm having to hit a slow roll with a slight touch, I start to relax my bridge, which is a big no-no and can cause my tip contact to be a little off. Always keep a firm bridge! I can't say for sure whether a firmer or more delicate grip/cueing arm works better for little baby shots, and I suspect it depends on your form and cue weight, but if have to relax your grip and cueing arm for a delicate shot, do not make the mistake of also relaxing your bridge. What's that saying about not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing?
 
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We get used to thinking of below center as drawing the cue ball. A nice touch shot includes stroking a tip or more below center softly enough so that the draw erodes along the cloth and becomes gentle follow after object ball impact.
 
It's often difficult to reproduce a shot in a diagram. In the first diagram, you presented too much angle to slow roll the cb to that spot.The shot had to be practically straight-in, with a very slight angle, in order for you to soft roll the cb to that spot.

I'm confused about the second diagram. You show two 5 balls. What does that mean? Was one of the 5 balls supposed to be where you wanted the cb to land? Which 5 ball represented the actual shot?
 
It's often difficult to reproduce a shot in a diagram. In the first diagram, you presented too much angle to slow roll the cb to that spot.The shot had to be practically straight-in, with a very slight angle, in order for you to soft roll the cb to that spot.

I'm confused about the second diagram. You show two 5 balls. What does that mean? Was one of the 5 balls supposed to be where you wanted the cb to land? Which 5 ball represented the actual shot?

The 2nd 5-Ball is where I hit the shot. Instead of pocketing the 5-Ball I hit it into the point on the right side of the pocket. Again, the CB seemed to go slightly left of where I aimed it when I slow rolled it. I always refer to this as the optical illusion.

r/DCP
 
The 2nd 5-Ball is where I hit the shot. Instead of pocketing the 5-Ball I hit it into the point on the right side of the pocket. Again, the CB seemed to go slightly left of where I aimed it when I slow rolled it. I always refer to this as the optical illusion.

r/DCP

Ok. Got it. As far as pocketing the 5, you have to aim for the wide side of that pocket on that shot, which is the left side. Aiming for the center is a guaranteed miss, but I'm sure you must know that. I have a different theory as to why you missed.

I suspect that you may have made a common sub conscious error. It's difficult to hold the cue ball for the 6 at that angle, so you may have minimized the angle to try to hold the cb without realizing it. That kind of thing happens more than you think.

Eventually, in time, you figure out that you can't defy the laws of physics. If the angle of the shot isn't conducive to the position you need, then you have to think of another way to play position on the 6. For example, you could draw the cb to widen the angle to the rail then bump the left side of the 6 ball slightly on the way off the rail, sending it slightly closer to the pocket and at the same time, slowing down the cb for position. It's not difficult to do, you just have to practice it.

Another option would be to draw the ball under the 6 to play it in the top corner pocket, or to go back and forth across the table to land under the 6.

Experiment!
 
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