Rule Question: Nine Ball/General Rules of POcket Billiards

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
While playing a nine ball match under standard rules of nine ball and General Rules of Pocket Billiards:

When there is no referee present, if an object ball is moved while in the process of shooting a shot , is it a foul if the nine ball is moved by your hand during the shot as shown.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3GKhW2HXFo2...ends_up_where_the_black_arrow_is_located.&ZZ@

For further clarification, the cue ball travels the assigned path FIRST and then the nine ball passes to the left of the cue ball and settles at the end of the table where marked. The nine ball nor the cue ball collide with any balls ex ept of course when the cue ball hits the intended 7 ball.

What happens in this particular case where no balls collide and the path of the cue ball does not come in the region of where the nine ball was originally located.?
 
Last edited:
The following rule seems pretty clear - it is not a foul.

1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball) with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot. It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls. At the non-shooting player’s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a shot.

Taken from the world standardized rules here:

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml

Also see 3.21.

Is there any reason you think the above doesn't apply?

Jim
 
Last edited:
Jal said:
The following rule seems pretty clear - it is not a foul.

1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball) with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot. It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls. At the non-shooting player’s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a shot.

Taken from the world standardized rules here:

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml

Also see 3.21.

Is there any reason you think the above doesn't apply?

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim, so based upon the rules you indicated, was this particular shot a foul or not? What portion of the rule distinctly indicates that it is or is not a foul? Thanks,
JoeyA

JoeyA
 
Joey, I'm sort of out of my league...just interpreting the rule. I don't see how it could be a foul given the part which I put in bold (no harm, no foul). By coincidence (unless you're posting under another name on the Billiards Digest forum), the same situation is being discussed there. See the second thread or so, entitled "Rule 1.16.1", for RandyG's opinion.

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=ccb

Jim
 
That shot is not a foul. Move the 9 back and continue. In order for it to be considered a foul the c/b would have to take a path much closer to the 9. If a foul was called that person could have thought the 9 was forward of the position you have shown. If you agreed on the relative position, then no foul. If not, then someone is within there rights to call a foul.

Here is the rub, how close does it have to be? Well, region is pretty vague. Me, I'd say anythng under 8 inches could create a controversy. Others may think in that quadrant. If there was a ref, then what did they think?

Rod
 
Foul ....

If the 9 ball did not impede or alter the shot, it is not a foul, and it is your opponents option to put it back or not. I would not, btw, since the relocated position is a harder shape shot than the original location.

==> The OLD rule was the same as above plus if the moved ball traveled
more than 6", then it was a foul.
 
Jal said:
Joey, I'm sort of out of my league...just interpreting the rule. I don't see how it could be a foul given the part which I put in bold (no harm, no foul). By coincidence (unless you're posting under another name on the Billiards Digest forum), the same situation is being discussed there. See the second thread or so, entitled "Rule 1.16.1", for RandyG's opinion.

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=ccb

Jim
Click to expand...


Rod & Snapshot have it right as usuall. No FOUL. Option to leave or put back the nineball.....randyg
 
randyg said:
Rod & Snapshot have it right as usuall. No FOUL. Option to leave or put back the nineball.....randyg
Click to expand...

Randy, thanks for the feedback.
I thought that this is not a foul but wanted confirmation. The accident had no effect on the outcome of the shot and so it is no foul.

If the accidentally moved object ball had passed the cue ball even as close as a fraction of an inch and still not hit the cue ball there still would be NO FOUL, correct?

If the accidentally moved object ball contacts another object ball further down the table but the additional contact would have had no effect upon the shot, then this too would be NO FOUL, correct? In this case the moved object balls would be put back into position by the tournament director, correct?

Thanks again for your interpretation.

JoeyA
 
Rod said:
That shot is not a foul. Move the 9 back and continue. In order for it to be considered a foul the c/b would have to take a path much closer to the 9. If a foul was called that person could have thought the 9 was forward of the position you have shown. If you agreed on the relative position, then no foul. If not, then someone is within there rights to call a foul.

Here is the rub, how close does it have to be? Well, region is pretty vague. Me, I'd say anythng under 8 inches could create a controversy. Others may think in that quadrant. If there was a ref, then what did they think?

Rod
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response, Rod, but I the cue ball traveled that path BEFORE the nine ball even came into that area. Even so the only way the cue ball could have created a foul is if it HIT the accidentally moved nine ball or came close to the original location of where the nine ball was located. Coming close to hitting the moved object ball is not the substance of the rule. I believe the cue ball or any other ball that is set in motion AS PART OF THE SHOT, has to either touch an unrestored ball or come into the close proximity of the ORIGINAL SPACE OCCUPIED BY THE disturbed ball.

I have asked RandyG, the Master level BCA Instructor and founding member of the Cue-Tech team from www.poolschool.com to clarify this as well.
JoeyA
 
Joey,

That's what I meant, the original space occupied by the 9 ball, not where it moved to.

If the accidentally moved object ball had passed the cue ball even as close as a fraction of an inch and still not hit the cue ball there still would be NO FOUL, correct?

That is correct.

If the accidentally moved object ball contacts another object ball further down the table but the additional contact would have had no effect upon the shot, then this too would be NO FOUL, correct? In this case the moved object balls would be put back into position by the tournament director, correct?

Generally speaking yes, if both players are in agreement to the original lay of the balls. In situations where balls are close that could be a problem.

Rod
 
Rod: I don't think so. Once a moved ball touches any other ball(s) it has changed the outcome of the game.....SPF=randyg
 
No foul. The 9-ball did not alter the path of the cue or 7, and neither would have hit the 9 had it remained still. Opponent's option to replace or leave the 9 where it lies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top