Rule Question: Using another ball to determine clearance

Kevin Lindstrom

Kevin Lindstrom

14.1 Addict
Silver Member
Is there a written rule stating the penalty for using another ball that has been pocketed to measure clearance distance between balls or between ball and rail prior to a player taking his/her shot. I think it is general knowledge that this practice is not allowed but I was wondering if it is documented somewhere in a set of rules?

Thanks

Kevin
 
Here’s the CSI/BCAPL rule...

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MattPoland said:
Here’s the CSI/BCAPL rule...

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Click to expand...


As stated, those are just CSI/BCA league rules (which are often better and clearer than the official WPA rules) 'Official rules for the rest of the world may be different.
 
Kevin Lindstrom said:
Is there a written rule stating the penalty for using another ball that has been pocketed to measure clearance distance between balls or between ball and rail prior to a player taking his/her shot. I think it is general knowledge that this practice is not allowed but I was wondering if it is documented somewhere in a set of rules?

Thanks

Kevin
Click to expand...
That's been the rule as long(40yrs) that i've been playing.
 
Nostroke said:
As stated, those are just CSI/BCA league rules (which are often better and clearer than the official WPA rules) 'Official rules for the rest of the world may be different.
Click to expand...


WPA is less explicit but has generally the same rule. I’ve watched a Matchroom ref call a foul on Karl Boyes for “measuring” with the cueball but then decide to overrule his own decision upon realizing Karl was trying to “place” the cueball in the gap and not measure the gap.

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MattPoland said:
WPA is less explicit but has generally the same rule. I’ve watched a Matchroom ref call a foul on Karl Boyes for “measuring” with the cueball but then decide to overrule his own decision upon realizing Karl was trying to “place” the cueball in the gap and not measure the gap.
Click to expand...

I saw that match also. And the WPA rule cited does not address meassuring with your fingers, fist etc so Im asssuming that is allowed
 
I didn't know you couldn't use your fingers to measure that distance (like you do for the one rail kick of the rail into the pocket)...
 
When I get off work today I am going to look up what apa states. My former league operator said it was legal to use a pocketed ball....the current league operator says its not.
 
lorider said:
When I get off work today I am going to look up what apa states. My former league operator said it was legal to use a pocketed ball....the current league operator says its not.
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This is what I see for APA. Similar to WPA. I think the argument should be that the intended purpose for any ball is not to serve as a measuring device.

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lorider said:
When I get off work today I am going to look up what apa states. My former league operator said it was legal to use a pocketed ball....the current league operator says its not.
Click to expand...
It is clearly not legal - your former league operator is wrong. Another foul you don't see called much is using your cue stick on the pool table as a measuring device for a bank or kick shot, or any shot for that matter. It's OK as long as you are holding on to your cue, but as soon as you let go of your cue laying on the table, it is a foul. I've seen it called and a knowledgeable referee will uphold that call.
 
Rules Question

Can I assume using your cue to measure rail first shots would also be illegal? I see players (myself included) do this all the time.
 
ChrisinNC said:
It is clearly not legal - your former league operator is wrong. Another foul you don't see called much is using your cue stick on the pool table as a measuring device for a bank or kick shot, or any shot for that matter. It's OK as long as you are holding on to your cue, but as soon as you let go of your cue laying on the table, it is a foul. I've seen it called and a knowledgeable referee will uphold that call.
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Unfortunately that is not true in all rule sets. It is not a foul to put your stick on the table with out keeping your hand on it in APA, BCAPL and USAPL

For the BCAPL see page 80 in the CSI - BCAPL
1. Situation: Player A lays their cue on the table to help line up a shot, then uses a second cue, a mechanical bridge, or other equipment to assist as well
Ruling: Foul. Only a single cue, held in the hand or not, may be used.

Held in the had OR NOT (means you can lay it down)

It is a foul in the WPA rules
 
I am puzzled why any sanctioning organization would decide to legitimize what has always been considered ‘unsportsmanlike conduct’? Though using your cue to gauge/sight while in hand is often overlooked, laying it down on the table to line up a kick shot obviously qualifies as ‘illegal equipment use’.
When playing 14.1 on a table without a drawn rack outline, it is generally acceptable to hover over the rack area with the triangle, but laying it down turns it into a ‘measuring device’, which qualifies as ‘unintended use” (?).
 
lorider said:
When I get off work today I am going to look up what apa states. My former league operator said it was legal to use a pocketed ball....the current league operator says its not.
Click to expand...

My LO says its illegal. I don't recall seeing it in the manual, but that doesn't mean that its not in there
 
What about using a cue to measure mirror image? I've seen SVB do it in tournament play with a ref watching, nothing said. He'd measure from object ball to the rail with cue, grab the shaft at that point, then still holding on to that point, move the cue outside the rail...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2T-UzXpD7I&NR=1
 
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