Sealing Slate Seams

whittle

New member
I started this question on the new member intro page and got a lot of good feedback. After all the responses and searching on this site I've decided to use bondo. I've used bondo in auto body work and recently saw a post where they thinned the bondo with acetone no more than 10%. I tried this yesterday and it spread really well, smoothed out with no trapped air bubbles. I only applied in the slate screw holes and one of the larger seam chips just to see how it would work. Well it worked really well and just as it begin to set scraped off with a floor scraper, perfectly smooth and wouldn't require any sanding. Now on to the problem I had put beeswax on top of the screws and the bondo after cured would pop right out. I used zylene to clean any wax from the slate and it worked well but there must have been enough left on the sides of the hole so the bondo wouldn't adhere. So what next? I remove all the wax and clean really well put a pc. of tape on top of the screw and then bondo. Which in hindsight is what I should have done to start with. Option 2 I just fill the rest of the hole with wax. These holes are onto the playing surface and I'm pretty sure the ball will roll over them before contacting the rail. There are no hold down screws in the center of the slate.
Yesterday I applied about 5" of loctite on both sides of the seams and about 3 " in the center. Today I'm going to fill the seams with bondo and wait to see your reply's on how to fill the screw holes.
I'm not trying to start another long thread on Bondo vs Wax as there are numerous posts on this subject and I've already decided to use bondo.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Option 1, tape over the screw holes and Bondo.

When you say Loctite, I'm assuming you mean Loctite brand superglue and not the thread lock. Most mechanics are now using drywall tape (or similar) between the slates as a wick for the superglue to prevent the seams from separating/lifting. My mechanic used playing cards.

49583769918_c5282a92a7_h.jpg
 

whittle

New member
Your correct, it wasn't even loctite brand but Mytrapel CA glue "super glue" Man did your guy have a fortune in Starrett levels.
I used 1 Starrett 98 12" and had to move around a lot. How thick is that slate? Looks to be over 1"
 

snookered_again

Well-known member
i think it's likely the slate screws are actually just beneath the cushions and not where the ball can roll. you can measure distance in from edge to verify. I had a couple I didn't bother to fill, thinking they would land underneath the rail anyway.. later realized I can feel them with my fingers, through the cloth but they are outside the playing field and just under the edge of the cushion.. turned out to not be a problem.
Your mileage may vary.

if you fill with bondo, it is a good idea to put a layer or two of masking tape either side of the area, fill level with the tape, after it dries and shrinks you should be still just a hair above the slate and have that tad of extra material to sand flat.. or just use a card scraper to level it. If you fill level and then it shrinks below the slate, you need to fill again..
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your correct, it wasn't even loctite brand but Mytrapel CA glue "super glue" Man did your guy have a fortune in Starrett levels.
I used 1 Starrett 98 12" and had to move around a lot. How thick is that slate? Looks to be over 1"
1”. Brunswick Gold Crown I.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I started this question on the new member intro page and got a lot of good feedback. After all the responses and searching on this site I've decided to use bondo. I've used bondo in auto body work and recently saw a post where they thinned the bondo with acetone no more than 10%. I tried this yesterday and it spread really well, smoothed out with no trapped air bubbles. I only applied in the slate screw holes and one of the larger seam chips just to see how it would work. Well it worked really well and just as it begin to set scraped off with a floor scraper, perfectly smooth and wouldn't require any sanding. Now on to the problem I had put beeswax on top of the screws and the bondo after cured would pop right out. I used zylene to clean any wax from the slate and it worked well but there must have been enough left on the sides of the hole so the bondo wouldn't adhere. So what next? I remove all the wax and clean really well put a pc. of tape on top of the screw and then bondo. Which in hindsight is what I should have done to start with. Option 2 I just fill the rest of the hole with wax. These holes are onto the playing surface and I'm pretty sure the ball will roll over them before contacting the rail. There are no hold down screws in the center of the slate.
Yesterday I applied about 5" of loctite on both sides of the seams and about 3 " in the center. Today I'm going to fill the seams with bondo and wait to see your reply's on how to fill the screw holes.
I'm not trying to start another long thread on Bondo vs Wax as there are numerous posts on this subject and I've already decided to use bondo.
Turpentine. It's often called pure gum spirits of turpentine. That stuff ate beeswax right off, wiping with a rag. It's smelly but not as bad as most solvents IMO.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Option 1, tape over the screw holes and Bondo.

When you say Loctite, I'm assuming you mean Loctite brand superglue and not the thread lock. Most mechanics are now using drywall tape (or similar) between the slates as a wick for the superglue to prevent the seams from separating/lifting. My mechanic used playing cards.

49583769918_c5282a92a7_h.jpg
When I did mine I didn't have the really thin CA. I used the drywall tape to set the gap then folded up notebook paper to actually apply the CA to. It worked very well. The drywall tape just wouldn't suck any glue in with it not being the thin stuff.
 

snookered_again

Well-known member
Turpentine. It's often called pure gum spirits of turpentine. That stuff ate beeswax right off, wiping with a rag. It's smelly but not as bad as most solvents IMO.
turpentine is derived from plants, solvent is derived from oil. both dissolve wax.
Turpenes are smelly, they are a part of a plant's system of warding off insects, among other things.

I soak outdoor wood in turpentine and linseed oil to make it withstand the elements better, it helps ward off insects that attack wood, it also reduces the linseed oil so it can soak in.
the smell of your christmas tree or the pot grow op down the street are because of terpenes.

my favorite wood refinishing product is turpentine and linseed oil, many coats, often sanded in after it reaches saturation help fill pores and create a beautiful "in the wood" finish..

Im not sure if many use it for cues, I've been curious. most coatings like acrylic or epoxy or lacquer are over the wood finishes, they isolate the wood from you and also create that squeaky feel ,especially when humidity or perspiration come into play..

you can soak a gunstock or your shovel handles in it, or apply repetitively, it helps keep the weather out of the wood without you feeling like you are holding onto a piece of plastic. Wood has pores, plastics do not.. that's why wood has a much nicer feel to the touch than something encased under plastic.

things like chattoyance ( ribbon ) in wood are more enhanced when the light you see doesn't need to pass through the finish (twice) before it gets to your eyes..

a lot of commercial finishes are applied in one shot or in a production environment , putting a one shot UV cured coating on top of the wood is faster and more mass production friendly than making several coats and waiting between, as is necesary for a decent oil finish..

scratches and marks are easily fixed by applying more and wiping all you can off, but an over the wood finish requires removing a coating and reapplying it, or putting even more overtop.

linseed oil does harden up very well.. but it does so below the surface of the wood.. and it takes it's time doing so.

such "over the wood" coatings are often susceptible to dust, I can get beautiful finishes in a dusty room with linseed oil and turpentine.

why most , even high end cues have a plastic like over the wood coating is beyond me. I often see people sanding it off , trying to make their cue slide on their bridge hand better.. soem even use gloves.

to me it seems like a reasonable thing to do to remove an over the top finish and replace with a more touch friendly linseed oil and turpentine finish, but lookig at other cues, it seems uncommon. I don't know why that is.
 

snookered_again

Well-known member
if you can get a playing card between your slates, you cna also likely fit a new break off blade.. often the gap is because of foregn particles holding the slates from actual contact.. so you may be able to drag a blade along the gap to clean out any grit etc, and then get the slate a tad tighter.. if thescrew locations want to pull it apart you can often fill the holes with glue and splinters and redrill for a second chance.
I think it helps to use a card scraper or a blade( being careful not to slice yourself) You can scrape along the edges to knock any high spots off before mating them. filling with stuff like drywall tape is an option but I'd prefer to take the time to close the gap as much as practical.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
if you can get a playing card between your slates, you cna also likely fit a new break off blade.. often the gap is because of foregn particles holding the slates from actual contact.. so you may be able to drag a blade along the gap to clean out any grit etc, and then get the slate a tad tighter.. if thescrew locations want to pull it apart you can often fill the holes with glue and splinters and redrill for a second chance.
I think it helps to use a card scraper or a blade( being careful not to slice yourself) You can scrape along the edges to knock any high spots off before mating them. filling with stuff like drywall tape is an option but I'd prefer to take the time to close the gap as much as practical.
Obviously the slate edges are clear and free from debris which has nothing to do with the use of playing cards. A slight gap created by playing cards or drywall tape is irrelevant once the slates are super glued together, screwed down and bonded. The slates aren't moving.
 
Last edited:

whittle

New member
i think it's likely the slate screws are actually just beneath the cushions and not where the ball can roll. you can measure distance in from edge to verify. I had a couple I didn't bother to fill, thinking they would land underneath the rail anyway.. later realized I can feel them with my fingers, through the cloth but they are outside the playing field and just under the edge of the cushion.. turned out to not be a problem.
Your mileage may vary.

if you fill with bondo, it is a good idea to put a layer or two of masking tape either side of the area, fill level with the tape, after it dries and shrinks you should be still just a hair above the slate and have that tad of extra material to sand flat.. or just use a card scraper to level it. If you fill level and then it shrinks below the slate, you need to fill again..
Unfortunately my screw holes are in the playing field so I will be filling with bondo.
 

muskyed

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think if I remember right, there were screw holes out in the middle of the slate on my Diamond professional that they had to fill when setting up.
 

snookered_again

Well-known member
Obviously the slate edges are clear and free from debris which has nothing to do with the use of playing cards. A slight gap created by playing cards or drywall tape is irrelevant once the slates are super glued together, screwed down and bonded. The slates aren't moving.
sure of course you can just fill the gaps and screw holes if you prefer.

other than only a machinist level a really accurate straight edge is of help, and you can put the level on top of a long straight piece of steel to check over a longer distance. I found it helpful to put a playing card at 4 points under my accurate straightedge then try pulling each out one at a time, if one feels looser than the other 3 the two may be absolutely perfectly level but not on the same plane..
I got ahold of a piece of steel that had been accurately ground on one edge.. it was formerly used by saw filers and there is a little trick to it..

You place the steel with the ground side against the slate across any gaps then turn it. if things are perfect the whole length will have the same friction and if one side is even a tiny bit off you can feel it by the difference in friction against the slate. you can also put a strong flashlight behind the straightedge and look at the glint of light coming through..

getting the slates exactly on the same plane is probably more important than a slight gap or dead acurracy on the level. ,, as you say, a gap can be filled.

i liked the Durhams rock hard putty myself, but you have choices.

part of my choice was because it levels out so nice and can be sanded, with my table being over 100 years and never seeing bondo , I didnt really want that stuck on the slate now, although true, it can't be seen through the cloth anyway.. Just a preference. Its also not stinky like bondo is. I found it easy to get it to lay flat and it dries really hard.

Ive used bondo lots, its easy to make it so hard it's hard to sand or get it so the surface is sticky, I did find that there were certain types that were a lot easier to sand out. every body filler is not the same, glazing putty works too and doesn't need a catalyst but I wouldn't put it on much thicker than a piece of paper. often a bondo repair will have some air bubbles or a low spot and the glazing putty works well to fill stuff like that. bondo likes to be used at room temperature, not in a cold place or in the hot sun, the hot sun can make the surface go sticky, so can too much catalist. bondo has a limited working time, the durhams takes overnight, so if you were in a hurry that could be a factor.
 

snookered_again

Well-known member
I like a linseed oil finish on my cue. It is not commonly used, I think because it requires regular maintenance. I do prefer the feel of it over a hard finish though.
the rule of thumb with linseed oil is once a day for a week ( fresh wood) then once a week for a month, then once a year ever after.

rub all you can in, you can't put too much, because next you will wipe every bit off with clean cloths and set it to dry a bit.. it does get very hard, but not immediately.

for replenishing old furniture its common to mix it 1:1:1 with vinegar. the vinegar wont mix as it's water based but if you shake it as you go it provides some cleaning action so you arent; burying dirt into the finish, once you go over once like that you can eliminate the vinegar..

If I have a piece of antique furniture, even though it's got a finish of shellac or lacquer on it , but has normal wear and scratching, and the finish isn't so bad to warrant a refinish,, I'll use the linseed oil overtop..
because the coated surface that has shellac or laquer, the linseed oil cant; penetrate so it will wipe off with the clean cloths.. what does hapen is anywhere it is scrathed, the linseed oil soaks in hiding the white marks from scratches.. if a speck of finish is missing now it has some finish there.. so it immediately looks better.. later on it won't harm refinishing.. the secret is to always finish with rubbing own with clean cloths..

some try using it then notice that the surface feels sticky, no problem, you just put too much on, just use more turpentine and then do it again and that corrects the problem..

another thing that happens is if there is any crack or crevice, the crack can absorb then expel the linseed oil,, so next day it can resulting in a sticky area or a pool that you can see, near where the crack absorbed it.. again no problem , same solution.

some get the misconception , because they hear "oil" they think it doesn't harden, well its not engine oil or mineral oil, those don't harden.. If you think it doesn't harden look at the cap of a bottle youve used for a while,, it will glue the cap of your container down real good if you let it sit for a while.

after I build a finish with it, then I apply it with 320 wet or dry sandpaper mixed with the linseed oil and turpentine,, then because the sandpaper is wet with oil it is very slick and cuts very fine, that will move microscopic particles around into any voids,, after doing that a few tiimes, and doing a good rubdown after each session, the finish starts to get very smooth to the touch and the finish is really brilliant.

i restored all my heritage fir floors, sanded them filled cracks, replaced sections as needed with other old fir flooring.. it was a bit thin but I pounded any shiner down and filed them with carefully colored putty.. I went to a crazy amount of work on it.. after sanding wiht rented dru sander , edger , pad sander I used a card scraper, yes I scraped the whole floor by hand and that improved the sanded finish.. I use a metal card scraper,, best tool ever !
next i use danish oil and turpentine , do about 3 coats, the final coat by sanding it in and wiping off.. after that i ( optionally) use polyurathane,,

the linseed oil helps the bond and it hardens the area just below the surface, it helps make it less susceptible to damage.. the process brings out all the ribbon and beauty of the wood..

since my floors are fir, it does dent and the poly wont preven that so if I for example drop a can of soup it will make a dent.. that's just because the wood is softer than oak,,

old house owners sometimes term the stuff "blopentine" boiled linseed oil and turpentine.. If you go over wood with it then it soaks into the pores and builds a bond, then if you paint overtop it sticks better.. also helps preserve against rot. bugs dont like turpentine..
I noticed that in old medical books it was used as an antiseptic.. I found 100 year old notes saying if you have a toothache to take a ball of cotton soak it in turpentine pack it into your cavity then put a dab of opium overtop. I guess the turpentine killed bacteria and the opium was a pain reliever.. I wouldnt try that now, of course not, just found it interesting that it did have a former medical use. maybe they had a medical grade, who knows..

I use it on all my old house parts. lots I had to recreate or sand down to remove paint.. every time I make a new piece or restore something I do about 3 coats, then put it in place, after time I'll go back and do some subsequent coats.. If I were to use laquer or poly or something, Id be getting it back out , making a stink, and worrying about the dust etc. with the linseed oil I just wipe on , wipe off , easy to do. easy to keep replicating the finish.. I try to recycle old wood parts from other old houses and prefer using old growth fir..
If I want more protection I can later coat with polyurathane so that's an option later.. or just maintain the finish..

on my cue, it's ash, the surface of the wood has sort of sucked in in places, its because of the internal wood shrinkage , if you look at any old plank that was surfaced and left to do it's thing,, you will see the effect of some of the grain being more physically pronounced and the softer parts seem to recess..

I thought of spinning it on my lathe and going at it with fine sandpaper,, to just to try to make it more level and smooth and trying an oil finish.. some of the butt end seems to be sort of a bakelite material, is it black epoxy? it feels very much like a pool ball, no grain or pores.. maybe they were trying to mimic ebony.. It'll probably polish up with no finish there.

Trying to recut or "shave" the thing, That would be harder, a machinst lathe isn't great for such a long taper, I'd have to offset the tailstock and its not long enough to turn a full cue. maybe possible, but maybe not very practical , easier on a cue lathe designed for that.. but it will spin stuff and then I could do some hand sanding (with it spinning) .. I might be able to hold a shaft and retip cues. I want to try some old junk , see how I do. Im thinking I can make or buy a colett to fit the 3 jaw chuck with the right taper and a crack in it so it can be tightened and hopefully not mark stuff up.
 
Last edited:

snookered_again

Well-known member
I never do this but i see it happening, I find it disrespectful but some just have sloppy uncaring habits..

..Where a guy takes a ball and slaps it down on the slate.. doing such should not be able to crack any filler you use, normally its thin enough that it won't but I'd just think about that occurrence because it happens.

where it may cause issue is if there is a blowout and the filler is thick, unlikely if its just a narrow crack or very thin and well bonded filler. no filler sticks to dirt but it sounds like you are conscious of that .
 
Top