Shaft Tapers: Stiff, Parabolic, or Whippy ?

tpdtom

Really Old School
Silver Member
I'm very interested in hearing everyones preferences in shafts. I've had the chance to evaluate quite a few different tapers in the last few months, and frankly I'd had some surprises. When I quit pool in 1982, the very long Meucci type pro taper was the rage. Now, it seems as if most players want a "stiff" hit. That doesn't necessarily mean the tip, the ferrule, the taper, or the joint, but it could be any combination of the above factors. I'm going to cite some examples and you can comment. I've decided not to name the cuemakers that I refer to. I may mispeak and offend someone and that is not my intention. I'd really like to hear opinions from players perspectives.

Cuemaker #1 makes cues in the Southwest style. His cues usually have melanine ferrules unless the customer specifies ivory or another material. He uses different joints but mostly SS 5/16 X 14 or 3/8 X 10 wood to wood. He also leaves the joint collar VERY thick. His taper graduates RADICALLY in thickness immediately, where the tip is one diameter, and the ferrule is already getting thicker, and the shaft two inches from the ferrule is already over .50mm thicker than the tip. His cues hit VERY stiff, and he has a LONG customer waiting list. His detractors say that his cues hit just like a bar cue, but he is a very popular maker. Of course his cues are solid. What else could they be ?

Cuemaker # 2 makes cues with most popular joints, including Radial pins, 3/8 X 10, and 5/16 X 14 SS, and all ivory and phenolic materials. He prefers large pin wood to wood joints. He even uses ivory collars instead of a flat faced ivory joint and maintains the wood to wood, large pin hit. He likes medium laminated tips and ivory ferrules. His taper is a constant slowly graduating taper that feels like a pro taper, but actually always gets thicker. I would characterize the hit of his cues as medium, with medium feedback. Some players think this is whippy. His cues are well known for their playability.

Cuemaker #3 uses all the available joints, and all the ferrule materials, and makes mostly flat faced ivory joints and traditional Stainless Steel flat joints, usually 5/16 X 14 but sometimes a Radial pin is seen. He uses milk saturated tips, pressed in a vice for days. His taper remains constant for many inches, and then slowly gets thicker. This cuemaker is known for his great playing cues and good hit. He makes so many varied styles that I hesitate to categorize his cues according to stiffness, but I think they all play medium or thereabouts, with a hard hit being prominent.

Ok people, there you have it. Three totally different tapers. Which do you prefer and why ? Is there another general type that you like ? Why ? Let's just get specific here. What plays best ? Please refrain from disparaging any of our hard working cuemakers. Most make the best cue they know how and deserve our respect. It's not usually an extremely profitable profession, and we should be grateful to them...Tom
 
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tpdtom said:
I'm very interested in hearing everyones preferences in shafts. I've had the chance to evaluate quite a few different tapers in the last few months, and frankly I'd had some surprises. When I quit pool in 1982, the very long Meucci type pro taper was the rage. Now, it seems as if most players want a "stiff" hit. That doesn't necessarily mean the tip, the ferrule, the taper, or the joint, but it could be any combination of the above factors. I'm going to cite some examples and you can comment. I've decided not to name the cuemakers that I refer to. I may mispeak and offend someone and that is not my intention. I'd really like to hear opinions from players perspectives.

Cuemaker #1 makes cues in the Southwest style. His cues usually have melanine ferrules unless the customer specifies ivory or another material. He uses different joints but mostly SS 3/8 X 14 or 3/8 X 10 wood to wood. He also leaves the joint collar VERY thick. His taper graduates RADICALLY in thickness immediately, where the tip is one diameter, and the ferrule is already getting thicker, and the shaft two inches from the ferrule is already over .00050" thicker than the tip. His cues hit VERY stiff, and he has a LONG customer waiting list. His detractors say that his cues hit just like a bar cue, but he is a very popular maker. Of course his cues are solid. What else could they be ?

Cuemaker # 2 makes cues with most popular joints, including Radial pins, 3/8 X 10, and 3/8 X 14 SS, and all ivory and phenolic materials. He prefers large pin wood to wood joints. He even uses ivory collars instead of a flat faced ivory joint and maintains the wood to wood, large pin hit. He likes medium laminated tips and ivory ferrules. His taper is a constant slowly graduating taper that feels like a pro taper, but actually always gets thicker. I would characterize the hit of his cues as medium, with medium feedback. Some players think this is whippy. His cues are well known for their playability.

Cuemaker #3 uses all the available joints, and all the ferrule materials, and makes mostly flat faced ivory joints and traditional Stainless Steel flat joints, usually 3/8 X 14 but sometimes a Radial pin is seen. He uses milk saturated tips, pressed in a vice for days. His taper remains constant for many inches, and then slowly gets thicker. This cuemaker is known for his great playing cues and good hit. He makes so many varied styles that I hesitate to categorize his cues according to stiffness, but I think they all play medium or thereabouts, with a hard hit being prominent.

Ok people, there you have it. Three totally different tapers. Which do you prefer and why ? Is there another general type that you like ? Why ? Let's just get specific here. What plays best ? Please refrain from disparaging any of our hard working cuemakers. Most make the best cue they know how and deserve our respect. It's not usually an extremely profitable profession, and we should be grateful to them...Tom

Tom, you've put together a nice set of cues and while there are more, I like your descriptions.

If I had to pick one it would be Cuemaker #2 because I do not like cuemaker #1 shafts, getting thicker radically fast. I like some flex in a cue although too much flex seems to make the cue ball too lively.

I have been leaning toward some of the low deflection shafts in recent months instead of the maple shafts. I like standard high quality maple shafts if they are on the thin side (12.5 MM on down to maybe 12.0) and I THINK it is because there is a little less squirt to them than the 13.0 MM shafts).

However, my bottom line to how well a cue/shaft plays is far more dependent upon the player's skills and I would suggest a player invest more time and money in improving his or her skills than dancing around with trying to figure out which cue/shaft is best for them.

I've seen far better players than myself use and prefer 13 MM shafts with a super stiff hit, I've seen far better players than myself using thin diameter maple shafts with a pro taper. I've also seen far better players than myself using new technology low deflection shafts. While I don't consider myself a very good player, I can see that as I travel down his road, I am making more progress with trying to improve my game rather than trying tp improve my equipment. I try to do both but think that the greatest mprovement comes from increasing your skill and firming or establishing good fundamentals.

The bottom line to your question is: The best one is the one which you feel fits you and your game(s) best. Equipment preference is an individual thing and is subject to change with the winds of time.

JoeyA (likes fat pins)
 
Oh boy, you're absolutely right of course Joey, but for the purposes of this thread, and the decision making process that people buying cues go through, I wanted some diverse opinions. I'm surprised at the variances there are, and I never realized that until I had the opportunity to try quite a few cues. Personally, I recently went to pool school with Stan Shuffett for 3 days, took local lessons, and continue to further my education in the game by reading, watching top players, and whatever means are available and present themselves. It's all good...Tom
 
JoeyA said:
However, my bottom line to how well a cue/shaft plays is far more dependent upon the player's skills and I would suggest a player invest more time and money in improving his or her skills than dancing around with trying to figure out which cue/shaft is best for them.

True, but it's important to note that without finding comfortable equipment, there won't be a progression in skill.

I was most comfortable with my stroke using a whippy, Meucci type shaft. The Pete I had before my current cue was like a darn fishing pole it had so much flex! I do however believe that it was my father's influence and love for Meuccis that made me believe that I would shoot better with such a shaft, and indeed I did shoot great with such a shaft.
The Brunswick I have now is very stiff to me. When I bought it, it helped increase my natural abilities due to the lack of "help" I had with the sneaky pete; but the transition was gradual (iirc) and wasn't a big deal. Trying to get back into pool with the Brunswick has been a nightmare, though. I'm going back to a pro taper here real soon.
 
I doubt that many players here even know their shaft taper in thousands or mm. You might get some interested enough to measure though.

The #1 example isn't much of a taper. At a 1/2 thousands of an inch at two inches. What is the taper at, 4",6", 8" etc. Did you add to many zeros in that number#?

I prefer a joint in the .840 to .850 range. By 6" back my shaft taper has increased by .012. At 12" its increased by .032. Not a super stiff taper but it is firm.

Rod
 
Rod said:
The #1 example isn't much of a taper. At a 1/2 thousands of an inch at two inches. What is the taper at, 4",6", 8" etc. Did you add to many zeros in that number#?
Rod

Sure did :rolleyes: . I meant .050". Thanks...Tom
 
Did you mean .005? I'm no cuemaker but .050 @ 2" the shaft must be a tree trunk. LOL

Rod
 
you're right, i'm one of those players who don't know. i'm a novice compared to most of you guys. but i do agree if you're not comfortable with what you're playing with your skills won't improve. it took me a long time to find one that i was comfortable with and it is a meucci. i got a good deal on it, saved until i could afford it because i always said i wouldn't spend a lot of $$$ on a cue until a had a $$$ game. :) my game has definitely improved since i bought the meucci and i'm very happy with it.

the rest of what you're talking about is way over my head, although i have a very good friend that does know these things and he's told me before, but i always forget. just the 2 cents of someone who doesn't know very much about the technical aspect of equipment. :o

susan
 
JoeyA said:
Tom, you've put together a nice set of cues and while there are more, I like your descriptions.

If I had to pick one it would be Cuemaker #2 because I do not like cuemaker #1 shafts, getting thicker radically fast. I like some flex in a cue although too much flex seems to make the cue ball too lively.

I have been leaning toward some of the low deflection shafts in recent months instead of the maple shafts. I like standard high quality maple shafts if they are on the thin side (12.5 MM on down to maybe 12.0) and I THINK it is because there is a little less squirt to them than the 13.0 MM shafts).

However, my bottom line to how well a cue/shaft plays is far more dependent upon the player's skills and I would suggest a player invest more time and money in improving his or her skills than dancing around with trying to figure out which cue/shaft is best for them.

I've seen far better players than myself use and prefer 13 MM shafts with a super stiff hit, I've seen far better players than myself using thin diameter maple shafts with a pro taper. I've also seen far better players than myself using new technology low deflection shafts. While I don't consider myself a very good player, I can see that as I travel down his road, I am making more progress with trying to improve my game rather than trying tp improve my equipment. I try to do both but think that the greatest mprovement comes from increasing your skill and firming or establishing good fundamentals.

The bottom line to your question is: The best one is the one which you feel fits you and your game(s) best. Equipment preference is an individual thing and is subject to change with the winds of time.

JoeyA (likes fat pins)

but there has to be something to the difference.something that would suit some but not others.or there would be no difference needed.

i have a lucasi with a 15" pro taper.nice stick,looks great love the feel.can't draw or follow(powerfully) very well with it.put a cheap viper in my hands with what seems to be cuemaker #1 style shaft(would this be considered conical?) and those shots are no problem.

i'm starting to feel that the lucasi' taper is too long for my stroke style or stroke ability.i've been checking out the tapers on some other production cues and it seems joss and schon and maybe pechauer have shorter tapers than the lucasi.the pechauers i have seen up close and they seem much thicker at the joint than the lucasi.

i want to try them out and if my thoughts are correct, want to buy one or at least have a shaft with one of those tapers built for one of my current cues.
 
suzycue said:
you're right, i'm one of those players who don't know. i'm a novice compared to most of you guys. but i do agree if you're not comfortable with what you're playing with your skills won't improve. it took me a long time to find one that i was comfortable with and it is a meucci. i got a good deal on it, saved until i could afford it because i always said i wouldn't spend a lot of $$$ on a cue until a had a $$$ game. :) my game has definitely improved since i bought the meucci and i'm very happy with it.

the rest of what you're talking about is way over my head, although i have a very good friend that does know these things and he's told me before, but i always forget. just the 2 cents of someone who doesn't know very much about the technical aspect of equipment. :o

susan

That is why cue makers and repair guys are in business. Its not really important knowing specs if one is happy with their cue.

I have the original specs for my shafts, which I special ordered. One day if I buy a couple more shafts I want them made the same. I think its a good idea to know this before a shaft wears out. Well, they don't wear out they get sanded etc. In your case just buy another meucci shaft if you're happy.

Rod
 
Rod said:
Did you mean .005? I'm no cuemaker but .050 @ 2" the shaft must be a tree trunk. LOL

Rod

Yeah, me and numbers don't mix, but you get the idea. The tip is 12.41mm, the rear of the ferrule is 12.85, two inches down the shaft is 13.09, and eight inches down is 13.50mm . I guess that's Parabolic but it's STIFF ! So what is that an increase of at the ferrule alone ? .44 mm ? I think you were confusing inches with milimeters huh :p ? Anyway, it gets thicker FASSSTTTTTTTTT ;) ...Tom

P.S. I changed the original post to reflect .50mm, not inches :))
 
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tpdtom said:
I'm very interested in hearing everyones preferences in shafts. I've had the chance to evaluate quite a few different tapers in the last few months, and frankly I'd had some surprises. When I quit pool in 1982, the very long Meucci type pro taper was the rage. Now, it seems as if most players want a "stiff" hit. That doesn't necessarily mean the tip, the ferrule, the taper, or the joint, but it could be any combination of the above factors. I'm going to cite some examples and you can comment. I've decided not to name the cuemakers that I refer to. I may mispeak and offend someone and that is not my intention. I'd really like to hear opinions from players perspectives.

Cuemaker #1 makes cues in the Southwest style. His cues usually have melanine ferrules unless the customer specifies ivory or another material. He uses different joints but mostly SS 5/16 X 14 or 3/8 X 10 wood to wood. He also leaves the joint collar VERY thick. His taper graduates RADICALLY in thickness immediately, where the tip is one diameter, and the ferrule is already getting thicker, and the shaft two inches from the ferrule is already over .50mm thicker than the tip. His cues hit VERY stiff, and he has a LONG customer waiting list. His detractors say that his cues hit just like a bar cue, but he is a very popular maker. Of course his cues are solid. What else could they be ?

Cuemaker # 2 makes cues with most popular joints, including Radial pins, 3/8 X 10, and 5/16 X 14 SS, and all ivory and phenolic materials. He prefers large pin wood to wood joints. He even uses ivory collars instead of a flat faced ivory joint and maintains the wood to wood, large pin hit. He likes medium laminated tips and ivory ferrules. His taper is a constant slowly graduating taper that feels like a pro taper, but actually always gets thicker. I would characterize the hit of his cues as medium, with medium feedback. Some players think this is whippy. His cues are well known for their playability.

Cuemaker #3 uses all the available joints, and all the ferrule materials, and makes mostly flat faced ivory joints and traditional Stainless Steel flat joints, usually 5/16 X 14 but sometimes a Radial pin is seen. He uses milk saturated tips, pressed in a vice for days. His taper remains constant for many inches, and then slowly gets thicker. This cuemaker is known for his great playing cues and good hit. He makes so many varied styles that I hesitate to categorize his cues according to stiffness, but I think they all play medium or thereabouts, with a hard hit being prominent.

Ok people, there you have it. Three totally different tapers. Which do you prefer and why ? Is there another general type that you like ? Why ? Let's just get specific here. What plays best ? Please refrain from disparaging any of our hard working cuemakers. Most make the best cue they know how and deserve our respect. It's not usually an extremely profitable profession, and we should be grateful to them...Tom

Sounds to me like 3 of the cues you own:
1) Dayton
2) Klein
3) Jensen

I prefer the Jensen style - old, light wood. Long tapers. Milk dud tips - BTW, he soaks them in buttermilk and presses them.
 
Would love to know who cuemaker #1 is. I very much like that type of shaft.....Either straight up parbolic, or very aggressive.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Sounds to me like 3 of the cues you own:
1) Dayton
2) Klein
3) Jensen

I prefer the Jensen style - old, light wood. Long tapers. Milk dud tips - BTW, he soaks them in buttermilk and presses them.

Close, but no cigar :cool: ...Tom
 
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