Shaft tapers?

[racer rx]

I have a Meucci Red Dot now...

And was curious why is gives so much spin with such little effort.

I presume that it must be the taper of the shaft that Meucci uses.

How does other cue companies differ in their tapers. Such as Viking/Mcdermott/Joss/Predator?

And does the taper effect the amount of deflection?

thanks for the replies,

 

[bruin70]

everything else being equal, the stiffer the shaft the more deflection.

 

[kokopuffs]

On my shaft made by Phillippi the taper is 6 inches with a tip radius equal to a quarter. That's right, a quarter. And I get less draw but more accuracy than before. IMHO the smaller the tip radius, the more spin/draw/follow one gets.

 

[racer rx]

Hey Bruin thanks for the reply,

But you mentioned that: the stiffer the shaft the more deflection

How do you explain the Predator shaft?... they have a stiff shaft
and do not deflect that much at all.

Does anyone know Meucci differs from companys like Joss/Viking and Mcdermott in the Shaft tapers?

 

[JPB]

Hey Bruin thanks for the reply,

But you mentioned that: the stiffer the shaft the more deflection

How do you explain the Predator shaft?... they have a stiff shaft
and do not deflect that much at all.

Try this. Go to a billiard table. Find somebody with a billiard cue who will let you use it. Set up a 4 rail shot where you have 8' before you get to the first ball and then have to go to the end rail with a lot of english and then get the ball around the table. You need to get the hit on the first ball right and hit the cue ball with plenty of speed. Hit that thing with your Meucci for a while. Now try it with a billiard cue. How is the "zero deflection" Meucci now?

 

[Rickw]

everything else being equal, the stiffer the shaft the more deflection.

Bruin,

Several years ago, at a billiard convention (I think it was in Vegas) they tested the deflection of the Predator and Meucci shafts with robotic stroke machines. I think they even tried two different machines. The difference in deflection, as I recall, was negligible. The end of the article mentioned that you could spend a lot of money on a cue but what are you going to do when a snot-nosed kid comes in, grabs a house cue off the rack and drill your butt to the wall? Kind of puts it all in perspective don't you think?

 

[kokopuffs]

I think that, in Predator's logic, the lighter the tip area of the shaft the more deflection occurs.

 

[Joseph Cues]

everything else being equal, the stiffer the shaft the more deflection.

Not true at all imo.
The flex point is more critical imo.
The further down the flex point is, the more deflection.
Bob Jewett wrote an article on this.
JPB, you are absolutely correct.
I've shot with a Longoni billiard cue.
I placed the ob frozen to the side rail, one diamond from the pocket. Shot it with high inside , ball goes in, cb goes around the table like a chicken with head cut off.
Tried that with a pool cue. The cb kept hitting the rail before the ball.

 

[Joseph Cues]

I think that, in Predator's logic, the lighter the tip area of the shaft the more deflection occurs.

No, you have it backwards.
The lighter the end, the less deflection on the CUEBALL.
Predator's concept is, if you can make the SHAFT itself deflect OFF the cueball, the cueball will deflect less OFF the shaft.
That's why 314's are hollowed out.

 

[Joseph Cues]

Bruin,

Several years ago, at a billiard convention (I think it was in Vegas) they tested the deflection of the Predator and Meucci shafts with robotic stroke machines. I think they even tried two different machines. The difference in deflection, as I recall, was negligible. The end of the article mentioned that you could spend a lot of money on a cue but what are you going to do when a snot-nosed kid comes in, grabs a house cue off the rack and drill your butt to the wall? Kind of puts it all in perspective don't you think?

Then a few months later Meucci came up with the Black Dot.

Why? If the Red Dot had low deflection, why bother?
Nobody else tested that robot Meucci was using.
How accurate was it, who knows?
The snot nosed kids can play. They know how to apply english and when.
The rest of us equipment maniacs can't.
Really, a cueamaker/player told me this. Live and die with one shaft. Know how it plays and play with it.
Frankly, I think if you know how to use back hand english, a good shaft is good enough.

 

[JPB]

Not true at all imo.
The flex point is more critical imo.
The further down the flex point is, the more deflection.
Bob Jewett wrote an article on this.
JPB, you are absolutely correct.
I've shot with a Longoni billiard cue.
I placed the ob frozen to the side rail, one diamond from the pocket. Shot it with high inside , ball goes in, cb goes around the table like a chicken with head cut off.
Tried that with a pool cue. The cb kept hitting the rail before the ball.

I know I am right.


Seriously though, there are factors that objectively affect how cues play. Stiffer is better. Stiff cues deflect less and lead to more consistency and control. A variety of factors contribute to it, including, but not limited to shaft taper. Many tapers are bad and lead to too much flexibility. There are some trade offs since fat billiard tapers aren't always comfortable for pool cues. Thickness through the joint also matters for overall playability. Balance affects how you stroke the ball, which is obviously very important. The worst overall combination is a skinny flexible cue that balances too far forward. The cue will buckle and deflect a lot, losing energy and leading to inconsistent feel. The balance and skinniness leads to stroke problems. I believe these are objective factors, not ones that can be chalked up to player preference. It really is a question of design more than a subjective test. If some of the basic parameters are OK, then player preference kicks in. Many pool cues fail an objective test. They are too flexible, deflect too much, and are balanced too far forward. But as you say below, the good players beat me mercilessly with inferior equipment. But they'd be better off with other stuff even if they play well with equipment that should be better.

 

[kokopuffs]

Joseph Cues:

What you've posted is the opposite of what I've read at Predator's main forum call Seybert's. Honestly.

Here's their site and contact Neil, Predator's rep at that site, for further information:

http://www.seyberts.com/phpBB2/index.php

 

[racer rx]

The Black dot shaft does not make any sense to me... with the flat laminates. I think the whole Black dot thing is marketing against the popularity of the Predator shaft.

Meucci have always believed in rear balanced cues as well as consistant flex no matter which way you turn your cue. So that's why the flat laminates do not make sense to me.

So Meucci have gone into building more and more cues with this Black dot shaft... I think they shouldn't worry about what Predator is doing and make better quality Red dot shafts.

Bob are you reading this,,,?

 

[pro-player]

Bruin,

Several years ago, at a billiard convention (I think it was in Vegas) they tested the deflection of the Predator and Meucci shafts with robotic stroke machines. I think they even tried two different machines. The difference in deflection, as I recall, was negligible. The end of the article mentioned that you could spend a lot of money on a cue but what are you going to do when a snot-nosed kid comes in, grabs a house cue off the rack and drill your butt to the wall? Kind of puts it all in perspective don't you think?

This is the best post I've read in months. I really don't feel that a predator shaft or "minimal deflection" shaft or cue will make any noticable improvement on somebody's game. I can take a house cue and do certain things with the cueball that other people with a $3000 Ginacue can't. I don't understand why so many people believe deflection is bad? You just have to know how to aim with the type of cue you have, and know how to execute the shot. When I get into dead stroke and start cutting balls close to the rail at 90 degree angles with inside to get 3 rail position, I can't explain to someone else how to aim or how to hit that shot, the reason why is because it's all feel, when I get in the zone, my cue becomes part of my arm, and I don't have a thought process telling me word for word what to do. My cue deflects, I don't use a predator shaft, it's just a normal maple shaft with a compressed Moori tip. It only took me about 2 months to get used to it's hit, and now I have never considered switching to another cue.

 

[Gerry]

Good points Pro!,
IMO It's all what you get used to. For me it's a steel joint 18.5 oz, forward weighted cue. I did try a predator for a while, and just never like the feel. It seemed to be "dead" on touchy little spin shots. Meucci cues seem weighted in the rear, and whippy to me?. I do have a sweet Sigel cue that plays a ton, but I'm scared to death of dinging it while shooting. Anyway I've also been beaten by all these cues, so like another post hinted to, pick one you like and stick with it.....Gerry