Signatures on New and Old schuler Cues

[bushka]

Hello, I would like to pass along the following information to my AZ Brothers and Sisters about Schuler Cues. The signature on Schuler Cues
should not be a consideration when buying production Schuler cues. The cues before Rays death and cues made after all have a signature, the new ones have SLC for Schuler Legacy Series along with a signature. I challenge anyone to compare the signatures before and after Rays death, more than 95% of the signatures will be identical. This is because Ray mainly only signed his name to Schuler cues that were true one of a kind custom cues from his custom shop. The other Schuler cues which are what are mainly seen were signed by a Filipino Employee who still works for the company and signs the cues to this day. He can copy Rays signature perfectly, due to the fact that he has been doing it for so many years as part of his job. The concept of this post is enlighten people to this information so that they do not spend too much for a Schuler cue just because it was made while Ray was living, and this fact nether makes it rare or worth any more than a regular Schuler production model.

Hope This Helps

William

 

[cueaddicts]

I think most semi-educated cue buyers will know that Schuler is basically a production cue shop with some nice one-of's that Ray made. There are very few Schulers bringing much decent money these days anyway.....

Sean

 

[Cornerman]

. I challenge anyone to compare the signatures before and after Rays death, more than 95% of the signatures will be identical.

I don't recall them saying that Noel was signing the cues prior to Ray's death. When I compare my cues, there is a distinct difference in Schuler signature and the Legacy signature.

This is because Ray mainly only signed his name to Schuler cues that were true one of a kind custom cues from his custom shop.

Not quite true. In the beginning, that was true (that Ray only signed the truly one of a kind cues). In the early years, Ray hand signed the more elaborate cues. He didn’t sign the plain ones. However, as more and more customers requested his signature on even the plainest of cues, he decided that every cue that left his shop would get his signature. If a cue came back to the shop for repair and it didn’t have a signature, he would sign it before it was returned to the customer. That is to say, the signature is as much of the legacy of Schuler Cues.

When Ray died, they tried different techniques to mimic his signature, but Noel was able to copy it better than the other techniques (e.g. rubber signature stamp).

The other Schuler cues which are what are mainly seen were signed by a Filipino Employee who still works for the company and signs the cues to this day.

Noel Mendosa.

concept of this post is enlighten people to this information so that they do not spend too much for a Schuler cue just because it was made while Ray was living, and this fact nether makes it rare or worth any more than a regular Schuler production model.

I would be shocked if anyone puts a premium price due to Ray's original signature. That being said, I think your information is misleading as well. It's close, but I think it's a little off the mark.

For those interested, the Ray Schuler CueMakers Corner article was in the Nov. 2004 issue of InsidePOOL Magazine.


Fred <~~~ has an original "Cathy Schuler" signature

 

[bushka]

I don't recall them saying that Noel was signing the cues prior to Ray's death. When I compare my cues, there is a distinct difference in Schuler signature and the Legacy signature.



Not quite true. In the beginning, that was true (that Ray only signed the truly one of a kind cues). In the early years, Ray hand signed the more elaborate cues. He didn’t sign the plain ones. However, as more and more customers requested his signature on even the plainest of cues, he decided that every cue that left his shop would get his signature. If a cue came back to the shop for repair and it didn’t have a signature, he would sign it before it was returned to the customer. That is to say, the signature is as much of the legacy of Schuler Cues.

When Ray died, they tried different techniques to mimic his signature, but Noel was able to copy it better than the other techniques (e.g. rubber signature stamp).


Noel Mendosa.


I would be shocked if anyone puts a premium price due to Ray's original signature. That being said, I think your information is misleading as well. It's close, but I think it's a little off the mark.

For those interested, the Ray Schuler CueMakers Corner article was in the Nov. 2004 issue of InsidePOOL Magazine.


Fred <~~~ has an original "Cathy Schuler" signature

I have to disagree with you, I think that you should ask Noel yourself. You may be surprized at his answer. Although, I will agree that Schuler cues made before 1990 have Rays signature entirely. I also had and sold a cue signed by Cathy Schuler, this may be a little hard to have done today though, due to the fact that she has moved back to Washington State to be near her son. The cue I had was made in 2003.

William

 

[jayman]

schuler signature cues

Hi, I have had several ray schuler cues in my collection at the same time, most of them were pretty early cues, realitivly speaking. I saw many differenses in those signitures! and believe me I was looking very carefully, just to see if they were signed, or just copied. if you have a signed one start comparing it as you see others, they are very simmilar most of the time, but some are glaringly different. a few of my cues had a realy short area to sign, more of a fat ring than a whole butt sleve, those ones were the most noticably different.

 

[Cornerman]

I have to disagree with you, I think that you should ask Noel yourself. You may be surprized at his answer.

Maybe they like to tell different stories. You said 95%. I did a several hour, two day interview at the shop for the article. There was no mention of Noel doing the signatures prior. There would have been no reason to try out other mechanical means to copy the signature if Noel had already been doing 95% of the signatures.

Although, I will agree that Schuler cues made before 1990 have Rays signature entirely. I also had and sold a cue signed by Cathy Schuler, this may be a little hard to have done today though, due to the fact that she has moved back to Washington State to be near her son. The cue I had was made in 2003.

William

Sell a cue with Cathy Schuler's signature on it? William, I'm not going to call you a liar, but I will tell you that in the summer of 2004, Cathy told me that she had never signed a cue before, and would probably never sign one again. She was surprised that anyone would ask her for the signature. The entire shop crew was there, and Noel or Bryan went through the trouble of putting finish over the cue to protect the signature. She even went through the trouble of practicing her signature on a piece of scrap cue to make sure she didn't screw it up. That is to say, it was a big deal.

There was a bit of discussion that she had never signed one before. So, that's my story, a very personal one, so you can understand my disbelief at this moment. I hope it's simply a case of someone (or a bunch of someones) forgetting something.

I also had the shop do something else that they've never done before. I guess I won't bother telling anyone what that is.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

Hi, I have had several ray schuler cues in my collection at the same time, most of them were pretty early cues, realitivly speaking. I saw many differenses in those signitures! and believe me I was looking very carefully, just to see if they were signed, or just copied. if you have a signed one start comparing it as you see others, they are very simmilar most of the time, but some are glaringly different. a few of my cues had a realy short area to sign, more of a fat ring than a whole butt sleve, those ones were the most noticably different.

It would obviously make sense that the signature would change when the space got cramped.

My Schulers, there are a couple of distinct areas that are different (not that I'm a handwriting expert). I'd love to see dozens of old ones to see if those marks are there. Care to e-mail me some photos (PM if interested).

There are also "holidays" present in mine (missing ink due to the penstroke coming off the cue), showing that the signer was just signing, not taking great care in copying or mimicking.

Anyone with a Blue Book III compare the signatures of the before and after in the color section. The SLC cue there is one of the early ones signed by Noel Mendosa. Anyone with eyes can see how different the signatures are, and how different the weight of the strokes are.

Fred

 

[bushka]

Maybe they like to tell different stories. You said 95%. I did a several hour, two day interview at the shop for the article. There was no mention of Noel doing the signatures prior. There would have been no reason to try out other mechanical means to copy the signature if Noel had already been doing 95% of the signatures.

Sell a cue with Cathy Schuler's signature on it? William, I'm not going to call you a liar, but I will tell you that in the summer of 2004, Cathy told me that she had never signed a cue before, and would probably never sign one again. She was surprised that anyone would ask her for the signature. The entire shop crew was there, and Noel or Bryan went through the trouble of putting finish over the cue to protect the signature. She even went through the trouble of practicing her signature on a piece of scrap cue to make sure she didn't screw it up. That is to say, it was a big deal.

There was a bit of discussion that she had never signed one before. So, that's my story, a very personal one, so you can understand my disbelief at this moment. I hope it's simply a case of someone (or a bunch of someones) forgetting something.

I also had the shop do something else that they've never done before. I guess I won't bother telling anyone what that is.

Fred

Well Fred, if yours was signed it was not only not the first, but it was also not the only one. I had a small number NON-CNC special cut point cues produced near the end of 2003, the models were SLC-500 AND SLC-600. These cues were originally going to be made without a wrap as Billiard cues, I had these cues produced with a wrap to my specifications. One of these cues was signed by Cathy Schuler, the cues were completed and delivered in March of 2004 or there abouts. Fred, I am sorry to burst the bubble you live in but you are wrong.

William

 

[Cornerman]

Well Fred, if yours was signed it was not only not the first, but it was also not the only one. I had a small number NON-CNC special cut point cues produced near the end of 2003, the models were SLC-500 AND SLC-600. These cues were originally going to be made without a wrap as Billiard cues, I had these cues produced with a wrap to my specifications. One of these cues was signed by Cathy Schuler, the cues were completed and delivered in March of 2004 or there abouts. Fred, I am sorry to burst the bubble you live in but you are wrong.

William

As I said, I was hoping that it was a case where someone (or someones) simply forgot. No need to be nasty about it. Surely you can understand where I'm coming from.

Where is this cue now?

Fred

 

[bushka]

As I said, I was hoping that it was a case where someone (or someones) simply forgot. No need to be nasty about it. Surely you can understand where I'm coming from.

Where is this cue now?

Fred

Fred, the cue was sold to soldier in May or June 2004. He deployed to Iraq around October, I have not seen him since.

William.