Slate Liner

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nolimits

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Hey guys, a real quick question. I was out looking at tables this weekend as I am in the USED market and was using NEW tables as a comparison guide. Anyhow, one of the things I noticed is most people on here indicate you should get a wood liner attached to your slate. It seems most the tables I saw had an approximate 4" slate liner attached directly to the frame and then the slate layed on top of that.

Do they actually make slate with a wood liner glued to the slate as well? Which is better or does it really matter? I can't see how having wood backing over an area that has no frame will really better SUPPORT the slate. But maybe I'm looking at this wrong.

Please help!!

Thanks!
NoLimits
P-)
 
nolimits said:
Hey guys, a real quick question. I was out looking at tables this weekend as I am in the USED market and was using NEW tables as a comparison guide. Anyhow, one of the things I noticed is most people on here indicate you should get a wood liner attached to your slate. It seems most the tables I saw had an approximate 4" slate liner attached directly to the frame and then the slate layed on top of that.

Do they actually make slate with a wood liner glued to the slate as well? Which is better or does it really matter? I can't see how having wood backing over an area that has no frame will really better SUPPORT the slate. But maybe I'm looking at this wrong.

Please help!!

Thanks!
NoLimits
P-)
Click to expand...

Yes it does, all the tables I sell are 1" slates backed with wood, you can view them on my web site www.fastlarrypool.com, they start at $1350 for a solid wood table with delux leather pockets. :D
 
At the risk of sounding stupid, can you explain how the wood backing over the ENTIRE area of the slate improves performance? Not trying to dispute your opinion, but rather trying to get smarter.

Also, are those tables imported? There is a local dealer that has tables almost identical and with some of the same names. I know his are imported.
 
It gives the slate strength. With a glued on backing also it is what you staple the cloth into......otherwise with no backing you have to glue the cloth on.
 
nolimits said:
At the risk of sounding stupid, can you explain how the wood backing over the ENTIRE area of the slate improves performance? Not trying to dispute your opinion, but rather trying to get smarter.

Also, are those tables imported? There is a local dealer that has tables almost identical and with some of the same names. I know his are imported.
Click to expand...

Look inside your TV or cpu and tell me where 95% of the parts came from, ROC OR kOREA, tHE BRUNSWICK TABLE, THE WOOD AND SLATE COMES FROM bRAZIL, IT IS NOT MADE IN aMERICA, just packaged here, the only american thing is the name plate they screw on it.

Dont get hung up on this, focus on the price and the quality of the product, that is all that is important.
 
pooltablemech said:
It gives the slate strength. With a glued on backing also it is what you staple the cloth into......otherwise with no backing you have to glue the cloth on.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....so you are saying that tables typically either have it over the ENTIRE surface of the slate, or it don't have it all? This is killing me. The used Golden West table I am looking at buying DOES NOT have a wood liner over the ENTIRE area of the slate. Instead, this wood liner is attached directly to the frame and measures about 4" or so in width. I'm assuming that's so you can staple the cloth to it. But it sounds like it IS NOT providing any strength to the table. Below is a diagram that shows how the table I am looking at is built:

http://www.goldenwestbilliards.com/cutaway.html

Now go and check out the Olhausen link for the UniLiner (it's a "demo" flash that shows a cutaway version):

http://www.olhausenbilliards.com/demo.htm

If you click on #2, you will get a diagram of what their tables look like from the frame to the top of slate. Notice how they have what looks like a wood liner attached directly to the frame and labled "UniLiner". And then above it, they show a "slate liner" and then finally the slate. Do Olhausen tables truly have 2 layers under the slate? Also, the other confusing thing about this diagram is that it makes it look like the wood and slate liners only extend a few inches beyond each frame support like on the Golden West. But if you click on #8, you can see the slate and a wood backing over the ENTIRE area.

I am just confused as can be, and want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. If it is better to have the ENTIRE surface of the slate covered with a 3/4" wood backing, could I not remove the existing 4" strip on the Golden West and replace it full sheets of 3/4" plywood and obtain the same strength?

Just kicking ideas, please help.

Thanks!!
 
It doesn't add much strength...but I guess it helps. It is usually just a 4" or so boarder.....depends on the slate company. Some have wider backings and different materials. I kind of like the mdf backing. Nowadays that stuff is so strong.....makes for a nice backing.
 
pooltablemech said:
It doesn't add much strength...
Click to expand...

That is what I thought when I originally posted this, but since THE SILENCER mentioned Olhausen, I started researching their site. I'm still not exactly sure how their "UniLiner" is configured, but apparently it puts up some rather impressive numbers. Check it out:

http://www.olhausenbilliards.com/uniliner.php

To be honest, the numbers seem bloated to me, and we all know to take independent tests with a grain of salt, especially considering that Olhausen probably PAYED for the tests. I'm not accusing anything...just stating the obvious ya know.

Either way, if a table can hold up to 5500lbs WITHOUT the UniLiner and still only get a .022 deflection, I think it is strong enough. To go into the 10,000 range (or even 27,000 on another table they tested) is getting to the point where it doesn't matter. Tell me when you are going to even have 5000lbs of weight on your table to begin with. I'm glad they have these measures of strength and I like to over-engineer stuff, but that almost seems ridiculous. I doubt that difference in strength can truly be felt by a player.

Of course, someone feel free to chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

Peace,
NL
P-)
 
Hehe, I hear ya...I hear ya!! The post I submitted before the last one has a link to the flash demo box thingie booper, but here is a screen capture I took a second ago highlighting the UniLiner:

UniLiner.jpg


As previously noted in the post where the original link is located...I am confused by how this stuff is actually constructed. On the original flash demo, if you click on #8, you get a picture of the slate with what appears to be a wood backing over the ENTIRE surface. As you can see in the above screen capture...this does not seem to be the case as it appears the wood backing is only about 4" or so wide, and the "slate liner" is less than that. Also the other picture doesn't show the "slate liner" that is between the wood and actual slate that is shown in this picture as well.

I wish someone with an Olhausen table that has the UniLiner would chime in. Curiousity is about to kill this cat. I might have to place a call to Olhausen or a dealer to find out the scoop.
 
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I've never heard of the "entire slate" being backed with wood. When I look at #8 it shows the rail and not the slate backing. To cover the slate would be a large waste of plywood and make no sense to me.

Olhausen probably uses an extra "uniliner" because their frame is so narrow. If the frame were sufficiently wide they would not need the uniliner. They also seem to have no center beam which appears to be common among modern tables. Thus, there is no support for the middle of the slate.

Golden West is a more conventional design and seems to have a center beam from what I can see in the illustration.

Here's a link to about all you need to know about slate and liners:

http://www.ahpooltables.com/slate.htm

Ken
 
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Well guys I broke down and called an Olhausen dealer today and quizzed them about their UniLiner system. Apparently the only component that is truly the "uniliner" is the 6" wide (per the dealer) strip of plywood that is fastened directly to the frame.

I don't know if that has to do with them using a smaller frame as Ken pointed out, or if they truly did it for pure strength gains. Either way, according to the test results I provided a link to earlier it appears to be stronger than traditional construction with the long beams in place. As me and the dealer were discussing, the strength issue is almost a null point anyhow. Most people will never put 5,000lbs of weight/stress on their table, and surely not 10,000lbs.

In regards to the slate...Ken is correct about the slate liner only being around the edges of it. As the dealer explained to me, the slate liner looks more like a picture frame surrounding the slate. The base slate liner option is MDF backing, and for $100 more you can get hardwood backing. The primary difference being if you change your cloth alot, the hardwood will hold up to the test of times. The slate liner is 3/4" in thickness and glued directly to the slate. That is why the diagram shows 3 layers.

It is my understanding most other tables just use a slate liner, and that sits directly on the frame. In the case of Golden West, they don't use a slate liner, but rather they have a "uniliner" type material that is attached directly to the frame. It's slightly wider at approx. 8" and extends to the edge of the slate to serve the same purpose as a slate liner (attach the cloth to it).

So anyhow, there it is. Hope it is clear. I'm still not sure if the GW or Olhausen system is better, but now I know some of the differences. Feel free to fire away!

Take care,
NL
:D
 
Ken in CT said:
When I look at #8 it shows the rail and not the slate backing. To cover the slate would be a large waste of plywood and make no sense to me.
Click to expand...
Sorry, you are right. You should click on #7, which address the slate liner. From there you can see the guy working on the slate piece and it appears there is backing over the ENTIRE piece. Perhaps they trim it later, but in a sense this is kinda false advertising if they don't ship the liner covering the ENTIRE surface. Or maybe my eyes are just bad and that is the sun gleaming down on the slate, but then why would they use that pic for the "slate liner" section?

Anyhow, sorry for the confusion.
 
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