Slow One Pocket - Shot Clock Time?

[arsenius]

Also, please note that this is in tournament conditions where the match is timed! In theory, we are given 45 minutes per game. If the guy I'm playing uses up 35 minutes of that time, shouldn't he be penalized if the game goes over the time limit? This is why the chess clock was invented for timing chess games. Each player gets a set amount of time to use.

I think using a chess clock could be a really cool idea, though I think you might need to modify it a little bit. You would only want the clock to run when the person was thinking, not when he finally shot, or you might be penalized for making multiple shots in a row. You could have a button to add (maybe) 15 seconds for every shot taken.

A player could be penalized when he used all his time, unless his opponent had also used up nearly all his time also. Kind of like volleyball, where you have to win by two points. If Player A used 30 minutes and Player B used 25 minutes that might be reasonable, but if Player B only used 15 minutes, Player A would be penalized.

 

[1pocket]

I think every tournament director should have the option available to put an excessively slow player 'on the clock'. Unless the event is on TV or very heavily ref'ed, having a shot clock all the time sounds wicked burdensome, and unnecessary!

The threat of a progressive penalty should be adequate, and definitely should penalize the slow player only. Something like this: First violation --> a scratch, ball is played where it lies. Second --> that game is forfeited. Third --> the match is forfeited.

You do need to give players flexibility, IMO. Most One pocket shots shouldn't take that long -- say 45 seconds max. But tough situations do occasionally call for more than a minute, so players ought to have the option of a couple or three extensions per game. The players that kill the schedules seem to be the ones that take those excessive long times in even simple situations!

 

[seymore15074]

I think every tournament director should have the option available to put an excessively slow player 'on the clock'. Unless the event is on TV or very heavily ref'ed, having a shot clock all the time sounds wicked burdensome, and unnecessary!

The threat of a progressive penalty should be adequate, and definitely should penalize the slow player only. Something like this: First violation --> a scratch, ball is played where it lies. Second --> that game is forfeited. Third --> the match is forfeited.

You do need to give players flexibility, IMO. Most One pocket shots shouldn't take that long -- say 45 seconds max. But tough situations do occasionally call for more than a minute, so players ought to have the option of a couple or three extensions per game. The players that kill the schedules seem to be the ones that take those excessive long times in even simple situations!

Well put.

(and here a few extra characters, because of the retarded 10 character minimum posting size)

 

[SCCues]

Slow Play

If they instituted a shot clock for 1-pocket, how much time would be fair? Would 1 minute be enough? 2 minutes?

I played in a 1-pocket tournament this weekend (AZ link). In one of my matches, it seemed that my opponent took at least 3-5 minutes for each shot. Now maybe he was going through all of his options, but it got to the point where I dreaded playing the rest of the game and the rest of the match, just because it was getting so painful. I started shooting at balls I shouldn't have shot at, just because I wanted to hurry the game along. Plain and simple, I lost patience.

In any case, I probably should have kept my cool and/or said something to the TD. Even my next opponent commented on how slow my previous opponent was. This got me thinking on how long a shot clock for 1-pocket should be. Some may disagree that a shot clock is needed at all, but when you're playing in a tournament with time-limited games, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea. Besides, super-slow play seems to be borderline sharking to me.

I think 90 seconds would be more than enough time for most shots. Even a minute seems pretty long to me, but maybe I'm a faster player (though I'm sure I'm not). Perhaps with 2 extensions?

I couldn't agree with you more. A good player can figure out what shot to shoot in 60 seconds or less. I couldn't play someone who took 3 to 5 minutes on each shot and I think that's rediculous. If they did that to me i'd probably break down my cue and tell them their strategy worked and they can have the match! I don't care to play someone like that and how can you enjoy playing sitting and waiting on someone looking at every possible alternative on every shot. That's not what pool is supposed to be and to me it's torture sitting through that.

 

[longhair]

Chess clock, good idea

I think using a chess clock could be a really cool idea, though I think you might need to modify it a little bit. You would only want the clock to run when the person was thinking, not when he finally shot, or you might be penalized for making multiple shots in a row. You could have a button to add (maybe) 15 seconds for every shot taken.

A player could be penalized when he used all his time, unless his opponent had also used up nearly all his time also. Kind of like volleyball, where you have to win by two points. If Player A used 30 minutes and Player B used 25 minutes that might be reasonable, but if Player B only used 15 minutes, Player A would be penalized.

For you non chess players, a chess clock is two timers side by side with a toggle switch between them so that only one timer is running at any given time. You hit the toggle when you have made your move (ended your inning at the table) and the other player's timer runs until he finishes and hits the toggle. When a timer runs out a little flag drops and that player loses the game.

My friend and I had been discussing using a chess clock for a onepocket tournament. I think it would work very well once the players adjusted to hitting the button. For us, twenty minutes per player seems about right. You could, of course, make it more or less time, depending on conditions.

I don't see any need to modify the chess style system. A player taking multiple shots is pocketing balls and therefore saving himself time. Also, if my flag doesn't drop, why should I be penalized for taking 19 minutes while you whipped through your shots and only used 10? A player might play fast just to acheive a penalty for his opponent in such a situation.

Using a chess clock for onepocket also offers a new and different way to handicap players. To play YOU, I need 10 to 6 and 30min to 10min on the clock. Of course, you can still think on the other guys time.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

Hurry Up And Take A Hit

I was going to reply that the time problem arises from players that don't know what (or when) to shoot at their pocket. They look at every ball on the table before finally missing whatever they attempted. They can't/won't/don't run out or make more than a ball or two and it takes FOREVER.

I 'was' going to write that, but then I remembered going to AZBer Steve "VoodooDaddy's" one-pocket tournaments and watching some of the 'Legends' of one-pocket play. Players like Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, Ray Martin,etc...... it was painful to say the least and I LIKE one-pocket.

Nick Varner sounded the death knell for Steve's tour, when he won all four tournaments in slightly under a year (but it felt longer). I mean, some matches took 4-6 HOURS. even professional sweators surrendered their 'Paid For' seating..
Doug
( I like one pocket on Accu-Stat and the 'fast forward' option... imo )

 

[vagabond]

Hi,

Nick was slow in 9 ball also.Buddy was slow in 9 ball also but not as slow as Nick

 

[Snapshot9]

Opinion

I have played in tournaments, not 1 pocket, that had a 45 minute time limit, and if it exceeeded it, both players were given a slow play notice that the match would end as it was within 10 minutes, whatever the score.

I personally feel a 90 second shot clock with 2 1 minute extensions per game is more than ample for 1 pocket. Most good 1 pocket players already know what they want to shoot before they get to the table.

Just for curiousities sake, has anyone done any studies on the average number of total shots taken in a normal 1 pocket game?

Even in 9 ball, I can tell exactly where in the run, my opponent will mess up because of getting on a wrong side of a ball and what leave they will have as a result, which will leave them a shot that they will miss, and have already planned out the rest of the table when they miss it before my opponent evens shoots his first ball ..... LOL and most of the time, I am right.