So it isn't the tip.

[CaptainJR]

I've put up some posts about trying different tips and come to the conclusion that it isn't the tip. Occasionally, (more often than is acceptable) I miss cue when playing a draw shot. These are the only times I miss cue. Can't remember the last time I miss cued because of english.

Anyway, it must be me cause it has happened regardless of the tip I have on. When it happens I look at the tip and of course the mark is always at the edge of the tip. (except for once with a Morri medium the mark was near center of the tip.) I'm very aware of this problem that I have so I'm fanatical about making sure I'm chalked up before a draw shot. So it isn't that. Some other things I'm making sure to do are. Keep the stick as level to the table as possible, make sure my grip hand isn't to far forward that is coming up at impact, stay down on the shot and follow through. Taking for granted that I don't intend to hit the cue ball that low (and I don't). Other than the things I have mentioned, what type of stroke flaws could cause me to be hitting lower on the cue ball than I intend to.

Thank you
JR

 

[CaptainHook]

I have a few questions:

What condition is the felt in on the table you play?

What kind of Cue Ball are you using? A bar box heavy ball is hard to Draw and it is usually covered with chalk.
A red circle ball is a little lighter than a blue circle ball, and is easier to learn draw with.

What are the room conditions like? I play in a room where during the day the girl bartender gets to cold from the AC and opens the door, this creates a humid condition and changes the way the table plays. When the AC is on or it is a cool dry day, you can actually overdraw the ball.
When the table plays wet i can only draw the ball a short distance if it is close to the object ball, that leads to my next question.

How far away is the object ball when you practice your draw shot?

Keeping the cue level is always a good idea, however with my stroke
i tend to elavate the butt just a little and when i contact the cue ball i drive the shaft into the slate on a draw shot where i am far from the object ball.

 

[Bluey2King]

Good Morning Captian;

One thing that really helped me with my Draw Shot is the Jim Rempe target Ball. I thought I knew where I was hitting the ball, but I wasn't. I think that this was such a valuable tool I hardly ever hear it mentioned. Pluse when your draw is not working then you start to tighten up causing more problems. I think someone called it choking the chicken...*lol*. Really it was true I would hit the ball harder and harder and tense up with my bridge hand causing my tip to raise. Once I started useing the target ball I started to hit the ball where I was aming and getting draw then I started relaxing now I have different types of draw with a punch stroke and with a very lose wrist, to get that long stroke. Try different things I would love to hear what you find when you figure it out. I have a moori med and it works good I am thing that i would like to try a hard tip for awhile sometime soon to see what its like.

 

[zeeder]

Occasionally, (more often than is acceptable) I miss cue when playing a draw shot. These are the only times I miss cue. Can't remember the last time I miss cued because of english.

JR,

I sometimes have the same problem. My problem is/was due to a couple of things. Number one was I was steering the cue towards the bottom on power draw shots to try to get more spin. The number two reason was when I started trying to keep my elbow fixed and I was playing with a 58" cue and not shooting a short shot I didn't have enough room to use a proper stroke so by not dropping the elbow and not being able to have my tip close to the cue bal at contact my tip was diving lower than where I aimed due to me not dropping my shoulder. Switching to longer cues helped a lot in this regard. I hope this helps.

Zack

 

[tedkaufman]

You've covered what I could consider the basic places to look for miscuing. But there are two other things you might consider.

One, if you become tense at all in an effort to apply powerful draw (placing pressure on yourself), you may be unconsciously altering the cue path on your delivery--in effect, jabbing. Tension is a killer in pool. Recall if you will Ga Young Kim giving away the US Open two years ago because of a simple miscue. She would not in a million years miscue on that shot were in not to win the US Open.

Also I've seen guys miscue by trying to hit so low on the cue the tip actually hits the cloth before the cueball. This may be a result of tension or just a delivery (stroke) issue.

Another thing to consider is the chalk. I've come across off the wall brands of chalk at some places that simply didn't grip.

I've put up some posts about trying different tips and come to the conclusion that it isn't the tip. Occasionally, (more often than is acceptable) I miss cue when playing a draw shot. These are the only times I miss cue. Can't remember the last time I miss cued because of english.

Anyway, it must be me cause it has happened regardless of the tip I have on. When it happens I look at the tip and of course the mark is always at the edge of the tip. (except for once with a Morri medium the mark was near center of the tip.) I'm very aware of this problem that I have so I'm fanatical about making sure I'm chalked up before a draw shot. So it isn't that. Some other things I'm making sure to do are. Keep the stick as level to the table as possible, make sure my grip hand isn't to far forward that is coming up at impact, stay down on the shot and follow through. Taking for granted that I don't intend to hit the cue ball that low (and I don't). Other than the things I have mentioned, what type of stroke flaws could cause me to be hitting lower on the cue ball than I intend to.

Thank you
JR

 

[Nico]

Don't worry so much about keeping a level cue, you should be able to adequately apply backspin with your cue elevated to thrity degrees. If you try too hard to keep a level cue, you might be holding back for fear of scraping your knuckles on the table. Better to elevate slightly and let the cue go with complete confidence.

The biggest problem most people have is maintaining a loose wrist and grip hand on a shot that requires a little more speed that most. Just check that you aren't overgripping your cue. This will bring out all the demons in your stroke, and we ALL have demons in our stroke.

And congrats on figuring out it's not the tip, some people never learn this. Now you can fix the problem once and for all and save money on tip replacement, that and your ferrule will thank you.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I've had the best luck using a Moori tip and chalking well, especially around the sides of the tip is the trick. But you are doing these things...

Also if I don't chalk, I tend to "scoop" the ball instead of drawing it.

Might want to try lightly sanding your tip with a sandpaper shaper about once a week. This puts a fresh new surface on the tip. Also might try slowing down. I can get a *lot* of draw with a slow hit but lots of follow through. I also use a closed bridge. Someone told me the advantage of using a cloded bridge with a draw shot, but I forget what they said. Does not make sense - closed bridge, but they had a good reason for using one with draw.

Following in the 3rd picture is my dime, nickel, and quarter PVC sandpaper shapers. Then PVC and coin sizes...

http://www.geocities.com/billybobnospam/pr.html

PVC SIZES...
Dime (1/2" PVC Pipe) [15.00 mm]
Nickel / Penny (3/4" PVC Pipe) [19.75 mm]
Quarter (1" PVC Pipe) [25mm]
Half dollar (1 1/4" PVC Pipe)
Billiard ball (2" PVC Pipe)

U.S. COIN SIZES...
Dime ......................... 18.00mm
Penny ..................... 19.10mm
Nickel ....................... 21.10mm
Quarter ...................... 24.10mm
Half Dollar .................. 30.50mm

 

[Gregg]

One thing that really helped me with my Draw Shot is the Jim Rempe target Ball. I thought I knew where I was hitting the ball, but I wasn't. I think that this was such a valuable tool I hardly ever hear it mentioned.

I too have the ball and although I don't use it often, I too was surprised at how far off I was from where I thought I was hitting.

Another thing to consider about a draw shot that I don't think was mentioned is to follow through at least six inches. Very important that you are not jerking the cue back or stabbing at the cue ball.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I've put up some posts about trying different tips and come to the conclusion that it isn't the tip. Occasionally, (more often than is acceptable) I miss cue when playing a draw shot. These are the only times I miss cue. Can't remember the last time I miss cued because of english.

Anyway, it must be me cause it has happened regardless of the tip I have on. When it happens I look at the tip and of course the mark is always at the edge of the tip. (except for once with a Morri medium the mark was near center of the tip.) I'm very aware of this problem that I have so I'm fanatical about making sure I'm chalked up before a draw shot. So it isn't that. Some other things I'm making sure to do are. Keep the stick as level to the table as possible, make sure my grip hand isn't to far forward that is coming up at impact, stay down on the shot and follow through. Taking for granted that I don't intend to hit the cue ball that low (and I don't). Other than the things I have mentioned, what type of stroke flaws could cause me to be hitting lower on the cue ball than I intend to.

Thank you
JR

Is it with all cues or just a specific cue...

Don't ask me what the "correct" stiffness or taper is, but I know that shaft taper , thickness and stiffness play a factor in mis-cues.

From my perspective, it seems like the stiffer the shaft, the harder it is to draw the ball, and easier it is to mis-cue...

That being said, there are other factors of a cue that make each shaft play different from cue to cue....take a shaft off one cue and fit it with a different joint and tip to a differently weighted butt and it may play totally different.

 

[Nico]

Is it with all cues or just a specific cue...

Don't ask me what the "correct" stiffness or taper is, but I know that shaft taper , thickness and stiffness play a factor in mis-cues.

From my perspective, it seems like the stiffer the shaft, the harder it is to draw the ball, and easier it is to mis-cue...

That being said, there are other factors of a cue that make each shaft play different from cue to cue....take a shaft off one cue and fit it with a different joint and tip to a differently weighted butt and it may play totally different.

It's not the tip, the joint or the shaft, it's the stroke. It's almost always the stroke. My shaft is stiff as they come and I draw the ball like there's no tomorrow. Someone else tries my cue and can't draw the ball two inches. Is that because the shaft is too stiff?, No, it's because they have a flawed stroke. Most players prefer to blame the equipment or the table for their bad habits and the real issues are never addressed or remedied.

You're on the right track CaptainJR, you've had a significant billiard epiphany.

 

[CaptainJR]

Thank you all for the replies. I'm thinking a lot about the replies referring to tension. It seems to fit the mold in the fact that, it's not that I do this all the time, but it seems like a big problem because it happens at the worst time it could happen. Near the end of a run, hill hill, crucial shot, etc. These are times when I could get tense and tighten up. So I'll give a try to keeping relaxed and a loose grip on these shots.

Thanks again for the responses.
JR

 

[BRKNRUN]

It's not the tip, the joint or the shaft, it's the stroke. It's almost always the stroke. My shaft is stiff as they come and I draw the ball like there's no tomorrow. Someone else tries my cue and can't draw the ball two inches. Is that because the shaft is too stiff?, No, it's because they have a flawed stroke. Most players prefer to blame the equipment or the table for their bad habits and the real issues are never addressed or remedied.

You're on the right track CaptainJR, you've had a significant billiard epiphany.

Hmmm... Then why can I pick up one cue and struggle to draw the ball, put it down, pick up a different cue with a different set up and draw the ball all over the place using the same exact stroke???

I had a cue with a certain taper that played very stiff. It was real easy to miscue, and you had to work to draw the ball. I thought at first that mabey it was just my (bad) stroke, so I had very good players other than myself hit shots with it and said the same thing...Too much work to draw the ball... I changed the taper on the shaft and now the ball draws with no problem....(same exact stroke)

Its not even a matter of being able to draw the ball...It is a matter of what set up fits your particular stroke the best and gives you the most control of the CB......For you, obviously its a stiff set up...It does not necessarily mean that every one else has a flawed stroke...It just means that the timing of thier stroke is different and my be better served with a different set up.

By your reasoning above, we should do away with all the different tips , tapers, butts, etc. and have one set up for any and all cues ever made...

 

[Egg McDogit]

my intuition is that you're jabbing at the cb instead of stroking it (despite what you say). this is probably the most common reason. other things can be trying to hit the ball too low (this is pretty hard though) or running out of stroke.

try doing this. setup a draw shot and do everything you normally do - but on your final stroke, watch the cb instead of the ob. pay attention to where you contact the ball.

Some other things I'm making sure to do are. Keep the stick as level to the table as possible, make sure my grip hand isn't to far forward that is coming up at impact, stay down on the shot and follow through. Taking for granted that I don't intend to hit the cue ball that low (and I don't). Other than the things I have mentioned, what type of stroke flaws could cause me to be hitting lower on the cue ball than I intend to.

 

[Nico]

Hmmm... Then why can I pick up one cue and struggle to draw the ball, put it down, pick up a different cue with a different set up and draw the ball all over the place using the same exact stroke???

Being comfortable with a pool cue is the most important thing, but some cues are closer to our taste than others. If you stuck with the cue that you don't like for any real period of time, you would grow more comfortable with it and be able to play just as well using it. What changed, the cue?. No, your perception and your confidence level changed.

I had a cue with a certain taper that played very stiff. It was real easy to miscue, and you had to work to draw the ball. I thought at first that mabey it was just my (bad) stroke, so I had very good players other than myself hit shots with it and said the same thing...Too much work to draw the ball... I changed the taper on the shaft and now the ball draws with no problem....(same exact stroke).

These other "very good players" have never used your cue, they were uncomfortable with it just as you were. With time they would grow used to it, just as you would. People are so impatient they want a cue that plays like their last one right away, that's why so many people sell them a day after buying them. CaptainJR is not here talking about having problems with a certain type of cue, he's having this problem with any cue. Therefore, we can deduct that it has nothing to do with the cue at all.

Its not even a matter of being able to draw the ball...It is a matter of what set up fits your particular stroke the best and gives you the most control of the CB......For you, obviously its a stiff set up...It does not necessarily mean that every one else has a flawed stroke...It just means that the timing of thier stroke is different and my be better served with a different set up.

It is very much a matter of being able to draw the cueball, that's when CaptainJR is misscueing (read the first paragraph of his first post). As for my tastes, I can play with any type of cue, stiff, whippy, I don't care. Why? - because I realize it's the skill behind the cue, not the cue. Yes, I have a certain set-up that I favor, but I don't panic and play bad if I'm out without my cue.

By your reasoning above, we should do away with all the different tips , tapers, butts, etc. and have one set up for any and all cues ever made...

Use whatever cue specs you feel comfortable with, but to come on this board and blame a cue for misscuing is ridiculous. I suppose you blame the car when you hit a tree?. No cue in the world will misscue on it's own, unless it's warped beyond recognition. CaptainJR even acknowledges that he may have a stroke flaw in his very last sentence.

I imagine you took great offense to my quote, "Most players prefer to blame the equipment or the table for their bad habits and the real issues are never addressed or remedied." Maybe it hit a chord?.

Good luck CaptainJR!, keep us posted on your progress