speaking of dremel ring cutters

[Cue Crazy]

I've posted the dremel setup I made in the past for cutting rings, basically the same idea that has been posted by a few recently.

I'm wondering Is anyone getting them cut thinner then the one in this picture using a slitting saw? The reason I ask Is this one used basically the same style dremel mount, but the ring in My calibers was cut using a plunge cut and a mini end mill. It works great like that, but the down fall is a little extra waste that adds up over time.

With the talk recently, I was prompted to mess around with using the saw again. I finally modified an arbor for some HSS saw blades I bought a while back By slimply cutting some of the shaft down, and It runs very true now, It also seems to be way more ridgid then before, which is a pluss, but the thing gets 1/16-1/8 into the cut and slowly starts to bog the dremel the deeper I go. If I increase the speed then It is too fast and heats the ring up too much. it seems to be cutting square, so I'm not sure If there's a binding issue, possibly not enough relief in My blades, or My dremel just does'nt have enough bottom end torque. I need to switch out with one of My other dremels to see If It's the motor or brushes.

Wondering if anyone who has made their own setup like this experienced any of these issues? Possible I need to try a different blade? I found a hobby company, that makes a dremel, these saws for hardwoods and plastic, the arbor, guards the whole deal if wanted. The blades are about ten bucks, 20 I think with arbor, and I'm wondering if It's even worth trying, because If not I guess I'll keep cutting them using the plunge method until I can upgrade to a larger spindle rotor and arbor setup.

Thanks Greg C

 

[Dave38]

I bought, from ebay, a batch of solid carbide blades, .035, and made an arbor with a 1/4" shank and run it in my porter cable laminate trimmer. plenty of torque and thin cuts. I personally think a dremel is to weak for this type of work, especially if you want to use the same one for a couple of years without it wearing out. The only problem I had was chasing the rings around the bench as they spin off. I use a wire held in the tailstock drill chuck to catch them. Just my 2.5 cents,
Dave

 

[Cue Crazy]

I bought, from ebay, a batch of solid carbide blades, .035, and made an arbor with a 1/4" shank and run it in my porter cable laminate trimmer. plenty of torque and thin cuts. I personally think a dremel is to weak for this type of work, especially if you want to use the same one for a couple of years without it wearing out. The only problem I had was chasing the rings around the bench as they spin off. I use a wire held in the tailstock drill chuck to catch them. Just my 2.5 cents,
Dave

Are you using a Speed control with Your router? The reason I ask Is Even with a laminate trimmer these blades may do the same thing unless I could control it at lower RPM's and it had the torque still on the bottom end. If I ran My Porter using these blades with no Speed C., then I'm pretty sure it would smoke them up, or at a minimum make them brittle. I'm wondering If the blade may not be making enough relief on the sides or something. I can speed the dremel up and maintain more torque at higher speeds, but besides not wanting to run one of the saws that high, It still heats the rings up too much. I don't have these problems with an endmill, but then they cut off the sides as well as the bottom, so they kind of make their own relief. I saw some blades that look good, but not sure If I want to throw 20 more bucks out to see when the endmill is getting the job done. The reason is basically what you mention, I will be upgrading to a better spindle and setting it up To be fixed in both positons H./V., and would rather put that money torwards it if a waste, but in the meantime I'm wondering if a simple blade change would solve the current issue with this setup. it does'nt seem to have enough relief on the sides to me for some reason. For sure the dremel is under powered, no way could I argue that, but It should still be possible Correct? Thanks for the input Greg

 

[rhncue]

Are you using a Speed control with Your router? The reason I ask Is Even with a laminate trimmer these blades may do the same thing unless I could control it at lower RPM's and it had the torque still on the bottom end. If I ran My Porter using these blades with no Speed C., then I'm pretty sure it would smoke them up, or at a minimum make them brittle. I'm wondering If the blade may not be making enough relief on the sides or something. I can speed the dremel up and maintain more torque at higher speeds, but besides not wanting to run one of the saws that high, It still heats the rings up too much. I don't have these problems with an endmill, but then they cut off the sides as well as the bottom, so they kind of make their own relief. I saw some blades that look good, but not sure If I want to throw 20 more bucks out to see when the endmill is getting the job done. The reason is basically what you mention, I will be upgrading to a better spindle and setting it up To be fixed in both positons H./V., and would rather put that money torwards it if a waste, but in the meantime I'm wondering if a simple blade change would solve the current issue with this setup. it does'nt seem to have enough relief on the sides to me for some reason. For sure the dremel is under powered, no way could I argue that, but It should still be possible Correct? Thanks for the input Greg

I use a so called 1.5 H/P Sears router to cut my rings. I tried a P/C laminate trimmer and it was to anemic. Even the router will slow some if pressed very hard. I would like to use a slower speed with the same torque but I haven't come up with anything to mount that will accept a Colet. I've thought of taking an old laminate trimmer body, putting on a small cog pulley and mounting a larger AC motor so as to get the torque but not the RPMs but I never seem to get around to it. Using a saw blade needs lots of torque as the blades have no relief so there is plenty of friction. I don't use a end mill as to get one that will cut deep enough it would need to be to large of a diameter. If I'm only cutting a half dozen or so rings at a time there is no problem but when I stock up on my common phenolic rings and want to cut 25 or 30 at a time the blade does get very hot.

Dick

 

[Cue Crazy]

I use a so called 1.5 H/P Sears router to cut my rings. I tried a P/C laminate trimmer and it was to anemic. Even the router will slow some if pressed very hard. I would like to use a slower speed with the same torque but I haven't come up with anything to mount that will accept a Colet. I've thought of taking an old laminate trimmer body, putting on a small cog pulley and mounting a larger AC motor so as to get the torque but not the RPMs but I never seem to get around to it. Using a saw blade needs lots of torque as the blades have no relief so there is plenty of friction. I don't use a end mill as to get one that will cut deep enough it would need to be to large of a diameter. If I'm only cutting a half dozen or so rings at a time there is no problem but when I stock up on my common phenolic rings and want to cut 25 or 30 at a time the blade does get very hot.

Dick

Yeah Your following what I'm trying to explain It seems that if there was a hair of side relief on the blade that It may not bog at the lower rpm's as bad. The only other way I know would be more torque at lower speeds. I can see that You've put some though into this also.

It works well with a 1/16 /.060 endmill though, and I can plunge cut quickly like that. I can also cut as many rings in a row as I want without fear of making them brittle, but there is some waste as You say, so that's the only reason I even still persue the saw blade. The darn blade just gets too hot for My taste.

My other option right now is manual cutoff tools. I have 2- 1 of them cuts well, but is about .100, so almost twice the waste as the endmill, and the other is around the same thickness as the end mill, but doesn't work nearly as well for Me.


I guess I should pass this along but here's another place I found for the small rotary tools with the blade setup. I don't know much about them, but if anyone has tried them I would apprietiate any feedback on them. http://www.gyrostools.com/Saw-Blades---Miniature-Ripsaws/c15_44/index.html

I just have some HSS jewelry blades I got off of ebay a while back, and they don't seem as sharp as they could be, so I can't help but wonder If I should try some different blades before giving up on It. TY for the Input, Greg

 

[RocketQ]

Yeah Your following what I'm trying to explain It seems that if there was a hair of side relief on the blade that It may not bog at the lower rpm's as bad. The only other way I know would be more torque at lower speeds. I can see that You've put some though into this also.

It works well with a 1/16 /.060 endmill though, and I can plunge cut quickly like that. I can also cut as many rings in a row as I want without fear of making them brittle, but there is some waste as You say, so that's the only reason I even still persue the saw blade. The darn blade just gets too hot for My taste.

My other option right now is manual cutoff tools. I have 2- 1 of them cuts well, but is about .100, so almost twice the waste as the endmill, and the other is around the same thickness as the end mill, but doesn't work nearly as well for Me.


I guess I should pass this along but here's another place I found for the small rotary tools with the blade setup. I don't know much about them, but if anyone has tried them I would apprietiate any feedback on them. http://www.gyrostools.com/Saw-Blades---Miniature-Ripsaws/c15_44/index.html

I just have some HSS jewelry blades I got off of ebay a while back, and they don't seem as sharp as they could be, so I can't help but wonder If I should try some different blades before giving up on It. TY for the Input, Greg

That is the only blade I have seen rater for max speed of 35,000 rpm. All of the other ones I have seen have been around 15,000 and then they start to flex and cause friction and heat. Ever see Mythbusters when they did the exploding cd? Same concept. The Gyro seems to have that figured out with that speed rating.

 

[billiardbum]

I've posted the dremel setup I made in the past for cutting rings, basically the same idea that has been posted by a few recently.

I'm wondering Is anyone getting them cut thinner then the one in this picture using a slitting saw? The reason I ask Is this one used basically the same style dremel mount, but the ring in My calibers was cut using a plunge cut and a mini end mill. It works great like that, but the down fall is a little extra waste that adds up over time.

With the talk recently, I was prompted to mess around with using the saw again. I finally modified an arbor for some HSS saw blades I bought a while back By slimply cutting some of the shaft down, and It runs very true now, It also seems to be way more ridgid then before, which is a pluss, but the thing gets 1/16-1/8 into the cut and slowly starts to bog the dremel the deeper I go. If I increase the speed then It is too fast and heats the ring up too much. it seems to be cutting square, so I'm not sure If there's a binding issue, possibly not enough relief in My blades, or My dremel just does'nt have enough bottom end torque. I need to switch out with one of My other dremels to see If It's the motor or brushes.

Wondering if anyone who has made their own setup like this experienced any of these issues? Possible I need to try a different blade? I found a hobby company, that makes a dremel, these saws for hardwoods and plastic, the arbor, guards the whole deal if wanted. The blades are about ten bucks, 20 I think with arbor, and I'm wondering if It's even worth trying, because If not I guess I'll keep cutting them using the plunge method until I can upgrade to a larger spindle rotor and arbor setup.

Thanks Greg C

Greg,

Send me some of those ring samples to try

 

[ratcues]

Why use a dremel setup when there are several tools that will do the job for less money and less setup time. Here are a couple of mine. One is .060" and the other is .100". Both and carbide and will cut through any material you'll use in a cue.

 

[DaveK]

... but I haven't come up with anything to mount that will accept a Colet.

Dick, here's a trick I've used, the "drill socket". These are used (apparently) in screw machines, and are like a drill sleeve but are not tapered on the OD. I use a " 1" x MS2 " socket, 4" long, in a home-built tail stock. You could use these sockets as a spindle and use MS taper collets in them.

Sorry for the digression.

Dave

 

[cutter]

Rat
Try and cut a segmented ring at .010 thickness with your set up and you'll see why guy's are going to the "live" tooling. Also it makes sense when cutting ivory rings to only have a kerf of .012 versus .072.
I use a laminate trimmer with a speed control and one of the gyro blades. Warms up the ring a little bit, but doesn't bog the router at all. I cut under power feed and and high lathe speed. I initially use to cut in back gear, but found that unnecessary. Like some one said, just have to catch the rings. Although the air from the router tends to throw them down between the ways and they are easy to find.
Steve

 

[ratcues]

Rat
Try and cut a segmented ring at .010 thickness with your set up and you'll see why guy's are going to the "live" tooling. Also it makes sense when cutting ivory rings to only have a kerf of .012 versus .072.
I use a laminate trimmer with a speed control and one of the gyro blades. Warms up the ring a little bit, but doesn't bog the router at all. I cut under power feed and and high lathe speed. I initially use to cut in back gear, but found that unnecessary. Like some one said, just have to catch the rings. Although the air from the router tends to throw them down between the ways and they are easy to find.
Steve

I have no problems cutting .010" rings with my setup. I need to be able to cut any material and at any thickness since I do a lot of repairs. I have never had issues. I use the power crossfeed and then catch the ring.

 

[WilleeCue]

Why use a dremel setup when there are several tools that will do the job for less money and less setup time.

Because some rings are either two fragile or two thin to cut square and even with out them coming apart when using a cut off tool.
I guess square and even is not so important in some rings but the 'A' joint ring must be as true and square as possible.
A rotating rip saw puts less pressure and less heat on the ring.

 

[Cue Crazy]

The question of why do It. I think Steve touched on a few of My reasons better then I could explain. I have had more issues with manual tools tearing up rings then the rotary tool. It's easier for me to debur and the ID comes out much cleaner too. I'm alittle anal about ragged Id's and the possibility that stress cracks may form there I guess, silly I know Still yet I still prefer to slice some materials with the parting tools, Like polymers for one. They seem to cut much cleaner with manual tooling.

Just cutting that one at .019 is a chore and skimming It for me. I can't imagine what getting .010 is like. Would be nice though. They tend to curl if I go too thin. I guess they could be pressed straight, and at least they hold together, but most of the ringwork I'm doing now is a little more chunky anyhow. If I put the .019 between two black rings I can hardly see the dashes in them anyhow

I'm happy enough using the .060 endmill other then the wasted material, and It cuts fast enough with out overheating. Heck I cut those slots for those rings using the same setup So they are something to use when you need to make due with what You have, and that's basically what I did by making a mount for an extra dremel I had at the time. I went too cheap on the mandrels and saws I think. at first there was a lot of runnout with the saw due to the mandrel, so I just continued to use the mill. well recently I decided to cut the mandrel lenth down to see happened, and the runnout disapeared, so now I'm running true, but have these el cheapo blades I think.


Thanks for the info on those blades I asked about. Looks like I should give them a shot. Greg

 

[Cue Crazy]

Greg,

Send me some of those ring samples to try

Jim, the maple dash Rings? If You would seriously want a few, PM Me Your addy again, I think I misplaced it since the last time. BTW did you ever get a chance to use any of that sheet? Wondering how well it machines. I'm still on the old stock, and just cut some squares from that batch, but have'nt tried it yet for Myself to see.

 

[Cue Crazy]

That is the only blade I have seen rater for max speed of 35,000 rpm. All of the other ones I have seen have been around 15,000 and then they start to flex and cause friction and heat. Ever see Mythbusters when they did the exploding cd? Same concept. The Gyro seems to have that figured out with that speed rating.

Yes I saw that episode It was something else. My brother had a drive go nuts on rpm's one time and the disk tore the drive up messed the tray up and everything. I would'nt have believed it had I not seen the results.

I once put one of those mini disks in a drive and the drive quit working, but nothing pysical looking damaged that I could see. It was under warranty, so i had to take It to a service rep, instead of changing It myself. The guy told me I was lucky, cause he had seen alot of cases where those mini discs went off like a pinball machine in those drives back then. Not sure if it was true or not though.