Sport First/Business Second

B

bigfoot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The writing is on the wall, we now know that since business in the past has always come first and hasn't helped the players develop the "sport". Why don't we "all" change our thinking and treat the sport first and maybe the business will come. Did I say something stupid??? Ckle
AND YOUR RESPONSE????? BF
 
I think I know what you're talking about but why don't you give us an example? Are you saying we should not worry about trying to get pool organized for TV? Should we concentrate on just putting together great tournaments like the DCC and not worry about televising it? Is this kind of what you're getting at?



bigfoot said:
The writing is on the wall, we now know that since business in the past has always come first and hasn't helped the players develop the "sport". Why don't we "all" change our thinking and treat the sport first and maybe the business will come. Did I say something stupid??? Ckle
AND YOUR RESPONSE????? BF
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Rickw said:
I think I know what you're talking about but why don't you give us an example? Are you saying we should not worry about trying to get pool organized for TV? Should we concentrate on just putting together great tournaments like the DCC and not worry about televising it? Is this kind of what you're getting at?
Click to expand...

I was thinking along the same line Rick.

But, and I have said this before, no matter how successful pocket billiards is in this country, the professional sports arena is already FULL.

Advertising dollars are already committed to the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Tennis and the PGA.

Pocket Billiards currently does not have anything to offer to make advertisers interested in bugeting their dollars.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
....Advertising dollars are already committed to the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Tennis and the PGA.

Pocket Billiards currently does not have anything to offer to make advertisers interested in bugeting their dollars.
Click to expand...

But....

Pool doesn't need anywhere near the money from sponsors that those other sports are getting. 2 or 3 million a year would go a long way in this game. To a major beer company or automaker that's nothing.
 
Wally in Cincy said:
But....

Pool doesn't need anywhere near the money from sponsors that those other sports are getting. 2 or 3 million a year would go a long way in this game. To a major beer company or automaker that's nothing.
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Wally,

It is true that 2 or 3 million to a beer or auto maker is NOTHING compared to the yearly overall advertising buget.. but they just don't "Throw it away"

Do you remember the Camel tour? that was much less than "2 or 3 Mill" and it only lasted a few years.

It's difficult already to get local beer or auto companies to put up 'just a little' added money to a local or regional tournament.

Ask John G. when was the last time any auto dealer added money to a pocket billiard tournament in Cincy... I know, it was 1991 ($200) by Marge Schott.

Pocket Billiards has to have something to sell first, to compete with the big leagues. Currently, if it isn't the Black Widow, or that blonde English lady.. not too many average viewers would even care.
 
San Miguel

Wally in Cincy said:
But....

Pool doesn't need anywhere near the money from sponsors that those other sports are getting. 2 or 3 million a year would go a long way in this game. To a major beer company or automaker that's nothing.
Click to expand...

San Miguel beer in Asia only put up $250,000 for their tour and Efren was there. BF
 
bigfoot said:
The writing is on the wall, we now know that since business in the past has always come first and hasn't helped the players develop the "sport". Why don't we "all" change our thinking and treat the sport first and maybe the business will come. Did I say something stupid??? Ckle
AND YOUR RESPONSE????? BF
Click to expand...


You are correct. If the game is strong the business will follow. It always does. We have to grow the sport. This will be a hard thing to do. I am not sure how really. In the most general terms, I don't think bar table pool is healthy at all. Golf is on TV with Tiger as a star. Miniature golf isn't. We need full size tables, perfect cloth, perfect balls, etc.... Then we have to figure how to get people away from video games, the internet, etc... and into the pool hall. I don't have any magical ideas on this.
 
Hate to use this example but.....

I used to watch a fair amount of professional wrestling (I know, I know). If you want to see a sport that has re-invented its product, you should look no further.

'Extreme' sports have also done much the same thing.

Perhaps pool should re-invent itself a little. Now where is Vince's phone number..... :D
 
Treat the Game Like Gold

JPB said:
You are correct. If the game is strong the business will follow. It always does. We have to grow the sport. This will be a hard thing to do. I am not sure how really. In the most general terms, I don't think bar table pool is healthy at all. Golf is on TV with Tiger as a star. Miniature golf isn't. We need full size tables, perfect cloth, perfect balls, etc.... Then we have to figure how to get people away from video games, the internet, etc... and into the pool hall. I don't have any magical ideas on this.
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When we're all out in the pool rooms/tournaments/gambling, we, one at a time can treat the game/players/promoters/advertisers/room owners with respect and care, much like one would to raise their own child. Doing what ever we can to change the image others have of us as a whole.

"For The Sport" may be a great Tag Line. The industry people, even the player organizations run by players in the past were mostly takers not givers. "Do what you can do for your sport not for your self" its a small yet powerful jesture. Remember the rest of the world thinks of the US as the birthing place of competitive pool in the world as it is now. When I see the great players from overseas, they seem to have allot of class and respect for this great game. BF
 
Tom In Cincy said:
I was thinking along the same line Rick.

But, and I have said this before, no matter how successful pocket billiards is in this country, the professional sports arena is already FULL.

Advertising dollars are already committed to the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Tennis and the PGA.

Pocket Billiards currently does not have anything to offer to make advertisers interested in bugeting their dollars.
Click to expand...


Also, of the sports that you listed above, what is the difference between the live paid attendance on one day compared with the attendance of a pool tournament on any given day? If fans don't come out in mass to view an event, why would a corportation want to sponsor it? Those fans are the potential buyer for the corporation's product or service. Sponsorship = money through advertising/name recognition of large numbers of fans buying those products or services. It's an investment that they expect a return on. Of the current sponsors that advertise heavily on ESPN televised tournaments, how many on this forum support the likes of Cuetec, Viking, Sardo etc. How many of each do you own? As far a beer goes, they'll sell a hell of a lot more Bud at a NASCAR event where there are over a quarter of a million fans at one time than a pool tournament with one hundred, and those that are watching at home on TV are going to drink whatever they drink anyway. I don't think we're ready for stadium pool yet, hell, some major league baseball teams are having a tough time selling tickets and that's still known as the "national pasttime".
 
Pool/Wrestlin'

I kinda agree with Raistlin. I often wonder how pool events would look if given the glitz and glamour of profesional wrestling. Smoke machines, laser light displays, theme music for each individual player, trash talking between so-called "good guys" and "bad guys". Add more entertainment value to the average Joe, and they'll kill themselves trying to get into the arena. I know, I know, to all the pool playing purists out there, this borders on blasphemy, but it's just a bit of wondement from me to you. Any ideas or opinions?

P.S. I've seen a few events on tv where they did a small-scale version of this. One event had Reyes playing someone, but my memory fails as to who it was.
 
Earl A "Heel"?

Oh yes...definitely, catscradle...Earl would be a natural "heel" or bad guy, to use a old an old wrestling term. A natural, I tell ya. :D
 
poolplayer1988 said:
I kinda agree with Raistlin. I often wonder how pool events would look if given the glitz and glamour of profesional wrestling. Smoke machines, laser light displays, theme music for each individual player, trash talking between so-called "good guys" and "bad guys". Add more entertainment value to the average Joe, and they'll kill themselves trying to get into the arena. I know, I know, to all the pool playing purists out there, this borders on blasphemy, but it's just a bit of wondement from me to you. Any ideas or opinions?

P.S. I've seen a few events on tv where they did a small-scale version of this. One event had Reyes playing someone, but my memory fails as to who it was.
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Sorta like the Mosconi Cup?

Earl beating up on Steve Davis.

And how about Rodney Morris geting in Mika Immonen's face. That would be another natural.

And then Ralf Soquet coming to their rescue.

LOL

At least there is some excitement in the Mosconi Cup for the fans. Otherwise, you really have to admit that watching pool is really rather dull.

And even thought $2,000,000 might be a well affordable investment for a company like Budweiser keep in mind that it still has to be passed by their BOD and must be acceptable to their investors. It is not a donation but advertising. And they do it to bring more money into their company.

The Daytona 500 had 200,000 fans in the seats. And just today someone told me he went there via a bus tour and paid $159 for his ticket. And besides the 200,000 in attendance there were probably another 50 million who watched it on TV.

Jake
 
bigfoot said:
The writing is on the wall, we now know that since business in the past has always come first and hasn't helped the players develop the "sport". Why don't we "all" change our thinking and treat the sport first and maybe the business will come. Did I say something stupid??? Ckle
AND YOUR RESPONSE????? BF
Click to expand...

If you really want to see professional pool succeed, the answer is in making it a team sport. 6 or 8 cities fielding a team of 5 pro players, playing regularly scheduled matches against other cities...a regular season, a playoff, individual team owners...salaries that the players could live off...local business advertising and promoting the local team...that is the way pool can succeed. JMHO
 
A National Pool Leauge? That sounds like a cool idea, don't know if it would make money but it would sure be fun to follow. The NPL, or should it be the NBL?
 
Tour

pooltchr said:
If you really want to see professional pool succeed, the answer is in making it a team sport. 6 or 8 cities fielding a team of 5 pro players, playing regularly scheduled matches against other cities...a regular season, a playoff, individual team owners...salaries that the players could live off...local business advertising and promoting the local team...that is the way pool can succeed. JMHO
Click to expand...
ABout 10 years ago I tried to put together a 5 man team (with one alternate) from Arizona for a challange tour in Australia. I got 6 possible players in AZ and accumilated about $3000 from sponsors, just to get started, ... and ...A friend of mine put together possible teams in Sydney/ Melbourne / Perth / and were working on a team in Adelaide...
We figured if we could get about a $5000 per player total to begin ...with sponsors input...we could have a good beginning.
The Australian input was a lot easier to get the $$$$ , they have many venues where paid seating could easily get up to 300 to 400 , but the USA input was very difficult...there was really no venue in the (western) USA...at the time...which would put up much $ to get the events, (most pool rooms have not much seating even for a few extra players at a small tourney) or had any space to hold spectators so we could get a revenue at the gate.
Now the possiblilty of the many casinos ..could give us a chance!
In Australia now, they have a good 8 ball playoff system from all the states...and the state playoff winners go to a national tourney championship.
Pretty easy to get something started there!!!
In our good old USA, so many players have abused vendors, and many vendors have given up on the players ...
....If anyone would like to give some input to "our " dilemma...please...
I have lotsa background info and contacts, if someone would like to start the process again....

I haven't given up yet.......
 
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