Ten Ball Break-N-Run Video #1

i'm glad you posted the video. nice shots. I see you ultimately ended up using a piston stroke (?). I had an impression you were tightening the grip at the end of the stroke many times. it may me delusional, though.
 
Yeah, I don't know what my stroke is right now. I'm just focusing on hitting straight LOL.

I think I may try bringing my back hand back a little. It may help to find the groove where I can feel more comfortable keeping my body still. I dont like my elbow tucked outward.
 
What's up with the soft break? Is that to keep the balls closer together?

The reason your arm is angled in towards your body is because you are approaching your shots with the center of your body. You have to remember that your arm is on the right side of your body, not the center.

This is why I recommend placing your back foot on the line of the shot as part of your approach to the table. This will place the right side of your body over the shot. (Right now, your right foot is too far to the right of the line of the shot.) If you place your foot on the line, you should then feel a slight lean to the right as you bring your head over your cue. That's normal.

Just remember that your arm is on your right side. That is the side where everything must be aligned. Do not align the center of your body over the shot or you will wind up with a restricted stroke where you will have trouble with big shots. Is that why you are soft breaking?

P.S. Once you've gotten into the habit of the arm position crooked-under your torso like it is now, it is very difficult to change because the change will feel awful. You may feel like you're starting all over again. It is worth the frustration to make the change, but it won't be easy. You will want to keep reverting back for quite some time.
 
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FranCrimi said:
What's up with the soft break? Is that to keep the balls closer together?

The reason your arm is angled in towards your body is because you are approaching your shots with the center of your body. You have to remember that your arm is on the right side of your body, not the center.

This is why I recommend placing your back foot on the line of the shot as part of your approach to the table. This will place the right side of your body over the shot. (Right now, your right foot is too far to the right of the line of the shot.) If you place your foot on the line, you should then feel a slight lean to the right as you bring your head over your cue. That's normal.

Just remember that your arm is on your right side. That is the side where everything must be aligned. Do not align the center of your body over the shot or you will wind up with a restricted stroke where you will have trouble with big shots. Is that why you are soft breaking?

P.S. Once you've gotten into the habit of the arm position crooked-under your torso like it is now, it is very difficult to change because the change will feel awful. It is worth the pain and frustration to make the change but it won't be easy.
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Probably developed the habit because I'm extremely left-eye dominant. I'll try what you said. It's not a soft break, but the hardest I can break at all!
 
nrhoades said:
Probably developed the habit because I'm extremely left-eye dominant. I'll try what you said.
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I was going to ask you that. Yes, then you are pulling your cue under your eye. Try placing your left foot about a foot above your right foot, shoulder width apart. (Right foot on the line of the shot) That should give you enough room to get your left eye over the cue without interference.

If it's still not enough, then raise your left foot slightly higher. Just do it in small increments. That will turn your hips towards your cue stick and open up your torso towards the cue so you can get your left eye over the cue. Don't overdo it.

And remember: Always bring your head to your cue, not the opposite!
 
FranCrimi said:
I was going to ask you that. Yes, then you are pulling your cue under your eye. Try placing your left foot about a foot above your right foot, shoulder width apart. (Right foot on the line of the shot) That should give you enough room to get your left eye over the cue without interference.

If it's still not enough, then raise your left foot slightly higher. Just do it in small increments. That will turn your hips towards your cue stick and open up your torso towards the cue so you can get your left eye over the cue. Don't overdo it.

And remember: Always bring your head to your cue, not the opposite!
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Hey Fran, I'm practicing right now. So far, good advice!
 
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Stroke Update, Round 1

Fran,

I've modified my stroke using your advice. I position my line along my right side with my right foot and place my left foot in front shoulder-width away (before I had more of a square boxer stance). I've also brought my grip hand further back towards my waist and loosened up a bit. I focused extra hard on moving only the cue and keeping my head still. The follow-through now feels like it is in a groove. I'm happy with the results. I especially liked the last shot of the video since it shows that my arm is now inline.

Couldn't get to a hall, so here is a video on a 7ft table. Not used to bar cue squirt, but shows the idea.

Next round of tweaks?? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVIP2G_n9E&feature=youtu.be
 
nrhoades said:
Fran,

I've modified my stroke using your advice. I position my line along my right side with my right foot and place my left foot in front shoulder-width away (before I had more of a square boxer stance). I've also brought my grip hand further back towards my waist and loosened up a bit. I focused extra hard on moving only the cue and keeping my head still. The follow-through now feels like it is in a groove. I'm happy with the results. I especially liked the last shot of the video since it shows that my arm is now inline.

Couldn't get to a hall, so here is a video on a 7ft table. Not used to bar cue squirt, but shows the idea.

Next round of tweaks?? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eVIP2G_n9E&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

Well done! You made the change look easy and I know it's not. Keep at it so the alignment becomes natural to you.

Try taking a slightly longer pause with your tip at the cue ball just before your final take-away. I think that will help your stroke timing a little. See how that feels.

Overall, you're looking great. Keep up the good work.
 
FranCrimi said:
Well done! You made the change look easy and I know it's not. Keep at it so the alignment becomes natural to you.

Try taking a slightly longer pause with your tip at the cue ball just before your final take-away. I think that will help your stroke timing a little. See how that feels.

Overall, you're looking great. Keep up the good work.
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OK, Thanks Fran! Next time I'll focus on tip pause. I'm going to wait a week before I practice so that by then second nature bad habits will try to surface again. We will see which ones come back, and try to nail them back down.
 
Disclaimer: I recently destroyed my adequate-so-far "intuitive" stroke trying to implement "correct" mechanics, so there are boulders of salt laying about...

In the spirit of constructive criticism my impression is lots of elbows dropping and tips flying. As I understand theory here shouldn't the elbow stay frozen and tip come to rest on the felt?

That said, a recent personal problem was head elevation and corresponding cue over-elevation (front and moreso back) resulting in micro-jumping the CB - Audible but only visible in a frame-by-frame review. I mention this because after looking at some 1/8th speed video of me and some friends everyone's waggling all over...​

Also, having been there I'm seeing the same frustration I feel after missing the CB position - reverting to pre-shot routine after failing is hard. I found that editing videos is tedious but it allows me to shoot without camera pressure, and allows more constructive analysis from experienced shooters.

On both points your first shot was textbook chin-on-cue, and stayed that way, but my impression was the cue bounced around more as the clip progressed. Would editing produce a more consistent shot?

GL,
-G
 
GregCG said:
Disclaimer: I recently destroyed my adequate-so-far "intuitive" stroke trying to implement "correct" mechanics, so there are boulders of salt laying about...

In the spirit of constructive criticism my impression is lots of elbows dropping and tips flying. As I understand theory here shouldn't the elbow stay frozen and tip come to rest on the felt?

That said, a recent personal problem was head elevation and corresponding cue over-elevation (front and moreso back) resulting in micro-jumping the CB - Audible but only visible in a frame-by-frame review. I mention this because after looking at some 1/8th speed video of me and some friends everyone's waggling all over...​

Also, having been there I'm seeing the same frustration I feel after missing the CB position - reverting to pre-shot routine after failing is hard. I found that editing videos is tedious but it allows me to shoot without camera pressure, and allows more constructive analysis from experienced shooters.

On both points your first shot was textbook chin-on-cue, and stayed that way, but my impression was the cue bounced around more as the clip progressed. Would editing produce a more consistent shot?

GL,
-G
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I thought about this for a few minutes and found that I didn't really absorb your comment. Are you saying that you've found high-speed shot analysis useful because it made you aware of micro-jumping? If so, explain why it is a problem, and what you have done to make a change?

-Nate
 
GregCG said:
Disclaimer: I recently destroyed my adequate-so-far "intuitive" stroke trying to implement "correct" mechanics, so there are boulders of salt laying about...

In the spirit of constructive criticism my impression is lots of elbows dropping and tips flying. As I understand theory here shouldn't the elbow stay frozen and tip come to rest on the felt?

That said, a recent personal problem was head elevation and corresponding cue over-elevation (front and moreso back) resulting in micro-jumping the CB - Audible but only visible in a frame-by-frame review. I mention this because after looking at some 1/8th speed video of me and some friends everyone's waggling all over...​

Also, having been there I'm seeing the same frustration I feel after missing the CB position - reverting to pre-shot routine after failing is hard. I found that editing videos is tedious but it allows me to shoot without camera pressure, and allows more constructive analysis from experienced shooters.

On both points your first shot was textbook chin-on-cue, and stayed that way, but my impression was the cue bounced around more as the clip progressed. Would editing produce a more consistent shot?

GL,
-G
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It depends on who's doing the elbow dropping and tips flying and how effective it is or isn't. I see no problem at all with the elbow dropping and tips flying in the video. It may seem unorthodox to the more conventional-type, but as far as I'm concerned, what's in that video is OK by me.
 
Nate,

I just wanted to add my opinion that that looked pretty good.

Like Ms. Crimi, I like your stroke. Some might only understand one 'stroke' & think that the world must conform to the cookie cutter approach.

Throughout history it is those that were different than most that wound up being bettere than most if not extremely exceptional in a good way.

Keep up the GOOD work & Best Wishes,
 
nrhoades said:
I thought about this for a few minutes and found that I didn't really absorb your comment. Are you saying that you've found high-speed shot analysis useful because it made you aware of micro-jumping? If so, explain why it is a problem, and what you have done to make a change?

-Nate
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Nate,

For the record, your stroke drops more balls faster than I can on my best days so, again, "boulders of salt". (Also, in '88 I touched a power line and lost both hands so my game theory beats my game and I'm all about "whatever works")

On frame-by-frame analysis, it helped me see things like head elevation that I was hearing but couldn't identify while shooting. I'm still having issues here, but I was literally touching my chin to the cue last night and saw improvement. As I understand the physics ( billiards dot colostate dot edu ), cue elevation magnifies aiming/stroke errors, and it stands to reason skipping the CB unintentionally implies a lot of errors. Further, what I thought was "down on the shot" very much wasn't, and once I shot "chin on cue" my CB draw distance tripled .

On stance/stroke, best I can tell "snooker" players outperform "pool" players on pretty much every level, and they have very specific ideas about stance and stroke. ( See TerryGriffithsSnooker dot Com 's "Lab", YouTube clip ".../watch?v=chHQEgE6YTQ" - sorry, I can't post links here yet...) It took about 10 hours to train my both-knees-bent-shoot-across-the-belly crouch closer to their stance, but it's natural now and helped.

Finally, assuming the upload works here's an edited clip of me and friends: "youtu dot be/xRX_qPptqfA"

Best, -G
 
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More stroke evolution... I'm pulling the cue closer to my chest. Reminds me of how one would pull back the string on a bow and open up the torso. I like this, seems very repeatable. I also need a haircut.

Again, sorry for the 7ft table, all I had to work with.

http://youtu.be/QahaaZj6Y6o
 
Pre shot alignment, your too quick down on the shot.
Backswing too quick and you would be better served with a pause at the back even a real short one, it helps transition backward to forward smoothly.
Heres my model for preshot and pause and just about everything mechanical :D
http://youtu.be/eGJzKCNarek?t=1m53s

He is very methodical, has great rhythm and possibly the straightest cue action in the world.
 
Slasher said:
Pre shot alignment, your too quick down on the shot.
Backswing too quick and you would be better served with a pause at the back even a real short one, it helps transition backward to forward smoothly.
Heres my model for preshot and pause and just about everything mechanical :D
http://youtu.be/eGJzKCNarek?t=1m53s

He is very methodical, has great rhythm and possibly the straightest cue action in the world.
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You're right. After watching the clearance, it looked like my video was sped up by 1.5. He is a good model. Ill try introducing the pause again, I feel like now it will help more now than it did a year or two ago. Just sitting here on the computer not playing pool, I can already imagine/feel how the pause will help keep the cue on the groove.

Edit. Acutally, it does look like my video was sped up a small amount. Its subtle. Maybe something happened during the conversion.
 
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nrhoades said:
You're right. After watching the clearance, it looked like my video was sped up by 1.5. He is a good model. Ill try introducing the pause again, I feel like now it will help more now than it did a year or two ago. Just sitting here on the computer not playing pool, I can already imagine/feel how the pause will help keep the cue on the groove.
Click to expand...

Once you get the timing right it's magical, I had a very short pause and in my last few practice sessions I have been pushing out a bit longer and wow what a difference. you have to stick with it but it is well worth it.
Much more accuracy on the cue ball more consistent and the cue going through much straighter.
 
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