the ghost is way too good for me

hobokenapa

hobokenapa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Finally ... some time to shoot some balls by myself and play some sets with the ghost. The scores were 1-9 and 3-9.

I just can't see any way I can win a race to 9. Two racks I never even had a shot on the 1 (with ball in hand!) and about 75% I knew were very tough for even a top A player to run. My problem is my break is so weak, I make a ball probably 30% of time and there are always clusters. Since 9-ball is not my favorite game, I don't want to spend the limited time I have on the break, but rather on pocketing/shotmaking and learning 1,2 rail positional plays to take to my Straight Pool. I'm thinking maybe a better practice game is just to put 9 balls at random around the table but with no clusters. This would at least enable to me to have a chance at making shots, playing some realistic position routes, and running out.

With such a bad break, for 9-ball League night, I'd like to take what I've learnt on Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets to the match table in order to make a ball much more often, and to have control of the table. However, I just don't feel comfortable inspecting the rack every time it is my break. What is the etiquette on this?
 
Why don't you feel comfortable checking the rack? You have a right to do so. Some may grouse about it, but they just MAY be s**t-racking you. You may find a problem that may be just ignorance on the part of the racker, that may need to be fixed just to give you a decent rack. It's shocking how many league players don't know how to rack well.
 
hobokenapa said:
Finally ... some time to shoot some balls by myself and play some sets with the ghost. The scores were 1-9 and 3-9.

I just can't see any way I can win a race to 9. Two racks I never even had a shot on the 1 (with ball in hand!) and about 75% I knew were very tough for even a top A player to run. My problem is my break is so weak, I make a ball probably 30% of time and there are always clusters. Since 9-ball is not my favorite game, I don't want to spend the limited time I have on the break, but rather on pocketing/shotmaking and learning 1,2 rail positional plays to take to my Straight Pool. I'm thinking maybe a better practice game is just to put 9 balls at random around the table but with no clusters. This would at least enable to me to have a chance at making shots, playing some realistic position routes, and running out.

With such a bad break, for 9-ball League night, I'd like to take what I've learnt on Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets to the match table in order to make a ball much more often, and to have control of the table. However, I just don't feel comfortable inspecting the rack every time it is my break. What is the etiquette on this?
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you need to experiment with the break. Find out what speed works best from what spot on the table. Often times the side rail is a fine spot to break from but don't get stuck on that spot. Move the cueball around the head string to see what gets the best action.

There is a table I have been practicing on for the better part of two years. I have the break completely figured out on that table. I place the cueball half a foot to the left of the spot, aim at the one ball full, medium stroke. I get balls down every time and very nice open layouts.
 
Cameron Smith said:
you need to experiment with the break. Find out what speed works best from what spot on the table.
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I was thinking back on the set. I'm gonna go for 80% speed next time. I think I was probably losing accuracy hitting too hard. Just like golf, I'm sure timing and accuracy are far more important than hitting it hard. How often has that leisurely 8-iron found it's way 20 yards off the back of the green!
 
hobokenapa said:
Since 9-ball is not my favorite game, I don't want to spend the limited time I have on the break, but rather on pocketing/shotmaking and learning 1,2 rail positional plays to take to my Straight Pool. I'm thinking maybe a better practice game is just to put 9 balls at random around the table but with no clusters. This would at least enable to me to have a chance at making shots, playing some realistic position routes, and running out.
Click to expand...


Maybe you should play Casper the Friendly Ghost: after the break, automatically take ball in hand, and run out from there...

As for checking the rack, that's your right; that's your duty to yourself and for the future layout of the table. What other people think, or say, or feel doesn't matter at all to what you're about: make the ball, get shape. make the ball, get shape.
 
Hoboken,

If you see someone is giving you a shyt rack tell them to re-rack if they dont, then rack it yourself, or take your cue and poke at the 1 ball lol. Which i have done before when someone didnt want to re-rack lol.

Anyways, If you only have a limited time to practice, just practice potting balls. Rack up 9ball or 8ball, Break and play both sides. Basically play against yourself.

I do this playing 8ball and 9ball, it tends to help you notice when you need to work on. Expecially when playing a good safe.

As for breaking, I'm in the same boat. When breaking on a 9ft table, my best break is about 75% if that, I squat my rock so good, i get a parking ticket!!!! And the balls spread out, and i normally pot a ball too.

Anytime i try to break HARD, i loose CB control and generally get a crappy break cuz i dont hit the CB where i want, and shyt happens.

The only time i break hard is when i play 8ball, only because its tougher to shyt rack someone. Plus your chances of making a ball on the break is better when breaking harder.

I dont know how much time you have for practice, but what i do is, spend the first 15-30mins just breaking, and finding the break on the table.

Then i break and take ball in hand and try to run out, or run till i play safe, and go from there. Not playing the ghost but, just play against yourself.

Or just match up against someone and just play, till your time runs out.

dave
 
Hi Hobekenapa,

A reading of your post reveals two issues: First, the quality of your break, and second, the potential quality of your opponents' racks. From your description of the results against the ghost, it seems clear that the primary issue is that of your break. Having said that, lets get the issue of the rack out of the way. In competitive play it is certainly your right and in my opinion, your responsibility, to check the rack. The break is the single most important shot in 9-ball, and it's hard enough without having to contend with slug racks. Therefore, check the rack. The four most important things to check for are:

1. Whether the one ball is frozen to the two balls behind it. If it isn't frozen to any of them you've got to to demand a rerack. If it is only frozen to one and you don't want to make an issue (perhaps that table isn't racking well) then break from the side that is frozen.

2. Whether the rack is straight (i.e., whether the one, the nine, and the back ball are all on the long string.

3. Whether the wing balls (the two balls next to the nine) are frozen to the nine. If not, your chances of making the wing ball are remote.

4. How high the rack is. This is important because generally, the higher the rack is the softer you have to hit it to make the wing ball, and vice versa.

Now, on the issue of your break, I have a few suggestions. First, if you care enough about nine-ball to play in a leauge, it is worth putting in 10-15 minutes a session on the break. Once again, it is the single most important shot in the game!

Secondly, pay attention to your contact point. I will assume that you usualy break from the side and aim for a full contact on the one, as that is the basic break. Unless you are forced to break from the box it would probably be wise, at your level, to abstain from trying the cut break as you have more factors to contend with. Focus mightily on hitting that one ball dead in the face. Reduce your break speed until you can get control of your contact point and of the cue ball.

Lastly, pay attention to the balls. You should always notice where the one ball and the wing ball (the one on the side that you are breaking from) are going. Ideally, you want to make the wing ball in the corner pocket, send the one-ball one rail towards the corner that you are breaking from, and squat whitey in the middle of the table. (Why not try to make the one ball in the side you might ask? Simple. On the break you are playing position, just as in any other shot. Since the two ball is not always on the same place in the rack you cannot play position on it as reliably. The one, on the other hand, will reliably go one rail towards the head of the table, so you can play for that.) Assuming that you are hitting the contact point on the one, if the wing ball hits above the corner pocket hit the next break a little less firm, and vice versa.

If you follow the above, you will soon realize significantly better results on your break and you never know, all of a sudden nine-ball may start becoming a lot more attractive to you.

Good luck, and remember, try without trying!
 
Gosh, I don’t know. I tried the ghost last week and beat the crap out of him. I flat out dominate that sucker on a 9 foot table with 4.5 inch pockets. The poor ghost had pull up after just a couple of sets, I thought he was going to cry.

The ghost did call me asking for a rematch, this time instead of 3 ball he wants to play 4 ball. :D


michael <- can only beat the ghost at 6 ball on a good day
 
VIProfessor said:
Hi Hobekenapa,

A reading of your post reveals two issues: First, the quality of your break, and second, the potential quality of your opponents' racks.
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You know .. last year I had one League night (after I'd learnt and memorised all of Joe's DVD) where I did analyse the rack every time and broke medium speed from the spot I'd calculated. I consistently made the wing ball, and put the one ball frequently over the corner pocket. I had five break and runs in winning 7-0 and 7-1. After that, I didn't do it again. I just didn't feel right inspecting racks like that, but it was very powerful.

You are right, it is such an important shot. I do need to practice it. Gonna leave work early and see if Casper is up for a couple more sets. I'll be sure to inspect the racks he gives me ;)

P.S. To answer an earlier question, I am taking ball in hand. I still had two racks without a shot in the 1 though (it was in a cluster and all pathways blocked). At least four or five others, no non-Efren way to get to the 2 or 3.
 
Don't fool yourself. There are very few players out there that can really beat the ghost on a 9 foot table with pro cut pockets. I personally, can rarely do it on my 8 foot table with 4.5 inch pockets. I would say I only succeed 1 out of 5 times in a race to 9.
A lot of things have to be going right for me to do that. Of course, I am not a fantastic shooter but can hold my own against the majority of players that I face. I actually play the ghost more often playing 8 ball, I enjoy that a lot more. I actually find it tougher on a smaller table due to the clusters.. Just thought I would share.

Peace, Joe
 
Progressive practice against the ghost

Hi again Hoboken,

Two more things came to mind after reading Joe Koontz's post. First, beating the ghost is quite an attainable goal that in my opinion, can be done by any B+ player or above. The second is that like any drill, you should approach it as a progressive drill. If you aren't doing well against Mr. Invisible with nine balls on the table, ratchet it back and try him with Six-Ball. After you achieve a reasonable record of success that way, add a ball and continue adding balls as you go along until you get to 10-ball. I went through that process until at present, Casper begs for mercy. You can make him feel the heat too!

The other thing is that it is possible that you need to adjust your pattern play to the demands of nine-ball which is, in some respects, an inherently different game from straight pool in that you play more area position and in that there will be many more instances in which it would be well advised to sacrifice distance in order to get the angle. Furthermore, nine-ball presents you with many more instances in which taking the longer cue-ball route is actually better than the shorter route in terms of cinching the ball and minimizing the possiblities of getting hooked.

If you find that this is a problem, I would highly recommend getting some of the Accu-Stats tapes of professional tournament matches. As I've mentioned in an earlier post, the combination of championship play and top-notch commentary from luminaries such as Grady Matthews (I didn't get my nickname in association with him, but he is one of my heroes), Bill Incardona, Nick Varner and Buddy Hall are invaluable particularly if, like me, you don't have the opportunity to watch world class players in person.

Let me know how it goes. Good luck, and try without trying!

P.S.--I checked out your straight pool high run (53 if I did my research right), and on the basis of that I would say that when you start running in the seventies or eighties your overall skill level will be high enough that beating Casper with nine balls on the table will be eminently attainable (provided that the break is there). Further, if you got Tony Robles available work with him! I consider him to be one of the best people you can get together with to improve your game, and of course he is universally known to be one of the finest, most stand-up individuals in our time-honored sport (I know, that does sound like the Professor doesn't it? :) )

Keep hittin' em!
 
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I'm no match for the 9ball ghost either. I'd say I'm decent against the 6ball ghost.
 
hobokenapa said:
I was thinking back on the set. I'm gonna go for 80% speed next time. I think I was probably losing accuracy hitting too hard. Just like golf, I'm sure timing and accuracy are far more important than hitting it hard. How often has that leisurely 8-iron found it's way 20 yards off the back of the green!
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TAP-TAP-TAP
 
Ghost??

Sometimes i am slow....i am assuming this means you play against yourself??? Playing you..and then..the ghost? Just checking....i dont usually sit on the short bus :)
 
hobokenapa said:
I was thinking back on the set. I'm gonna go for 80% speed next time. I think I was probably losing accuracy hitting too hard. Just like golf, I'm sure timing and accuracy are far more important than hitting it hard. How often has that leisurely 8-iron found it's way 20 yards off the back of the green!
Click to expand...

I've just lately started trying a softer break when playing 9-ball. I've been breaking about 75% power of my 8-ball break. With reduced power, my stroke speed has dropped a bit as well.

It seems to be helping - been getting a ball in on the break more often, and the cue control is better. Hell, the other night in a tournament, race to 3, alternate breaks - I broke first, the match went hill-hill, meaning I broke three times - I sent that 9-ball right for the opposite corner (breaking from the right side) every damn time! One time it snuck in, the other two it was going and another ball kicked it out. :(
 
ramw5p said:
Sometimes i am slow....i am assuming this means you play against yourself??? Playing you..and then..the ghost? Just checking....i dont usually sit on the short bus :)
Click to expand...

The Ghost is a player that always gets out. So, if you miss you lose no matter how good the safety or how bad the layout. Due to this, the Ghost always spots the break. That being said, he'll give you any weight you like so you could take 8 on the wire to 9 and the 5 out if you like. Hell, I might even be able to win with that weight!!
 
ScottW said:
I've just lately started trying a softer break when playing 9-ball. I've been breaking about 75% power of my 8-ball break. With reduced power, my stroke speed has dropped a bit as well.

It seems to be helping - been getting a ball in on the break more often, and the cue control is better. Hell, the other night in a tournament, race to 3, alternate breaks - I broke first, the match went hill-hill, meaning I broke three times - I sent that 9-ball right for the opposite corner (breaking from the right side) every damn time! One time it snuck in, the other two it was going and another ball kicked it out. :(
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You know it's amazing how hard you can hit the ball when you just try to hit it easy and smooth.

It's kind of like when you take out the pitching wedge and just try to hit the ball smoothly to get it on to the green, but you end up hitting it too good and it goes 20 yards over, lol.
 
So it was gloves off tonight. I warmed up for 15 mins or so, and had time for just one set. Final score 1-9 :(

I did find the break better with less force, but I only made the wing ball three times, and only one other break I made a ball. Three runouts were almost impossible, but I definitely had chances in three others. This is way harder than running 30 or 40 balls at Straight.

The rules I'm playing are BIH after the break, no 9-ball combos.

Next attempt : Wednesday.
 
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hobokenapa...<<I was thinking back on the set. I'm gonna go for 80% speed next time.>>
EXACTLY! There is a HUGE point of diminishing returns when you exceed 80% or thereabouts. Hitting the 1 Ball SQUARE and leaving the CB around mid-table...and NOT scratching is the key.

BTW regarding practice...just set up 4 balls...the 1 ball on the spot and 3 others dead in line with the path the CB travels on from where you hit it from and where it strikes the 1 Ball.

You can set that up in SECONDS and it does a decent job of simulation the opposing resistence of a full rack. You will CERTAINLY know instantly if you have NOT hit the 1 Ball square.

Regards,
Jim
 
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