The Law and Tournaments
- Thread starter Dave in Boston
- Start date
I was at a poolroom in Tempe, AZ and a police officer who has been coming in for years, whether to play or just have lunch or whatever, stops in for a little while. I asked him whether it was illegal to match up and play for something, gamble just one on one. He said it is not illegal, because it is a game of skill. He said calcuttas are illegal because there are people betting on other people's performance. Made sense to me.
K
Ken in CT
Guest
Gambling in Arizona is much different than gambling in Massachusetts. In Arizona:
13-3302. Exclusions
A. The following conduct is not unlawful under this chapter:
1. Amusement gambling.
2. Social gambling.
7. "Social gambling" means gambling that is not conducted as a business and that involves players who compete on equal terms with each other in a gamble if all of the following apply:
(a) No player receives, or becomes entitled to receive, any benefit, directly or indirectly, other than the player's winnings from the gamble.
(b) No other person receives or becomes entitled to receive any benefit, directly or indirectly, from the gambling activity, including benefits of proprietorship, management or unequal advantage or odds in a series of gambles.
(c) Until June 1, 2003, none of the players is below the age of majority. Beginning on June 1, 2003, none of the players is under twenty-one years of age.
(d) Players "compete on equal terms with each other in a gamble" when no player enjoys an advantage over any other player in the gamble under the conditions or rules of the game or contest.
I see no reason why a calcutta would be illegal in Arizona unless the TD is taking a cut as most of them do.
Ken
13-3302. Exclusions
A. The following conduct is not unlawful under this chapter:
1. Amusement gambling.
2. Social gambling.
7. "Social gambling" means gambling that is not conducted as a business and that involves players who compete on equal terms with each other in a gamble if all of the following apply:
(a) No player receives, or becomes entitled to receive, any benefit, directly or indirectly, other than the player's winnings from the gamble.
(b) No other person receives or becomes entitled to receive any benefit, directly or indirectly, from the gambling activity, including benefits of proprietorship, management or unequal advantage or odds in a series of gambles.
(c) Until June 1, 2003, none of the players is below the age of majority. Beginning on June 1, 2003, none of the players is under twenty-one years of age.
(d) Players "compete on equal terms with each other in a gamble" when no player enjoys an advantage over any other player in the gamble under the conditions or rules of the game or contest.
I see no reason why a calcutta would be illegal in Arizona unless the TD is taking a cut as most of them do.
Ken
K
Ken in CT
Guest
In "Social Gambling" the "players" would be the persons doing the gambling on the calcutta, not necessarily the persons actually playing in the tournament. It would be no different than playing in a poker game which is determined mostly by chance with some element of skill involved. These gambling activities are illegal in most jurisdictions but I don't believe they are illegal in Arizona.
Social gambling would include football pools also and as long as nobody is running the gambling activity for profit Arizona permits it. This is different than most states that prohibit any gamble either based mainly on chance or by persons not actually engaged in a game of skill.
It is extremely risky to rely on what the police say about laws. In most cases they know little more than anyone else and usually they get much of their information after they misinterpret a law and have to have it explained to them.
I have received two tickets from cops who did not know the law and were wrong in issuing the tickets. One involved driving without an emissions sticker when Connecticut specifically exempted diesel vehicles from needing to display a sticker. When he stopped me again while driving my other diesel vehicle he said "I guess you don't have a sticker because your truck runs on diesel. We learn". The other one was for going through a yellow light and the idiot said "yellow means stop". Of course after looking it up I found out that he was wrong also.
Ken
Social gambling would include football pools also and as long as nobody is running the gambling activity for profit Arizona permits it. This is different than most states that prohibit any gamble either based mainly on chance or by persons not actually engaged in a game of skill.
It is extremely risky to rely on what the police say about laws. In most cases they know little more than anyone else and usually they get much of their information after they misinterpret a law and have to have it explained to them.
I have received two tickets from cops who did not know the law and were wrong in issuing the tickets. One involved driving without an emissions sticker when Connecticut specifically exempted diesel vehicles from needing to display a sticker. When he stopped me again while driving my other diesel vehicle he said "I guess you don't have a sticker because your truck runs on diesel. We learn". The other one was for going through a yellow light and the idiot said "yellow means stop". Of course after looking it up I found out that he was wrong also.
Ken
Same thing down here at PSU no gambling.. meh. not that im good enough to win ora nything anyways <--- erikstill
Where is PSU located around the city? I work in the St. Johns area of Portland. I have no idea about where the colleges are in Portland (Portland State, U Portland)
Where is PSU located around the city? I work in the St. Johns area of Portland. I have no idea about where the colleges are in Portland (Portland State, U Portland)
May be the location is the problem
I have been to that pool hall several times and it always struck me funny that half of the city offices are in that building. The mayors office, the water dept, motor vehicle, and a couple of others along with a movie theater and a barber school. Maybe the mayor just did not like the idea of pool players walking past his office to play. maybe the mayor wants the pool hall to close or move. If that is the case then the mayor should move all the offices...lol.. just about seeing that happen....anyway. it is a piss poor way of handling things...........................mike
I have been to that pool hall several times and it always struck me funny that half of the city offices are in that building. The mayors office, the water dept, motor vehicle, and a couple of others along with a movie theater and a barber school. Maybe the mayor just did not like the idea of pool players walking past his office to play. maybe the mayor wants the pool hall to close or move. If that is the case then the mayor should move all the offices...lol.. just about seeing that happen....anyway. it is a piss poor way of handling things...........................mike
all straightened out
after talking with a very reliable source who shall remain nameless as per their request this has been straightened out. The police took this law to the district attorney in quincy the next day for interpertation and after reading the way the law was written it was determined that no laws were being violated. the only thing i can think of is that someone had a bug up their a$$ with either Mark or renaissance and complained trying to make trouble for 1 hell of a nice guy. so . where do we go from here. To play pool of course. keep stroking.....................................mike
after talking with a very reliable source who shall remain nameless as per their request this has been straightened out. The police took this law to the district attorney in quincy the next day for interpertation and after reading the way the law was written it was determined that no laws were being violated. the only thing i can think of is that someone had a bug up their a$$ with either Mark or renaissance and complained trying to make trouble for 1 hell of a nice guy. so . where do we go from here. To play pool of course. keep stroking.....................................mike
Every once in a while, someone "in the system" seems to want to mess with us pool players...
Back in the early 70's, there were quite a few of these problems for us pool players ...where we could gamble, where are some of the places we cannot, ...
In some of the old Billiard News editions, a few pool playing attorneys wrote in and gave us lotsa info...
In general, the laws in most states... As long as the gambling takes place between just the players at the table, gambling was perfectly legal, but if an outside party was involved, that outside party was breaking the law..."a form of bookmaking".
Obviously, a tournament is more than a couple of players directly involved, but as a "Calcutta" involves outside participants, it is usually illegal.
note* once in southern california, there was a policeman who liked to gamble with the local pool players, after he lost too much
he busted the players for gambling...after many complaints to the powers that be...he wasn't around much.
Back in the early 70's, there were quite a few of these problems for us pool players ...where we could gamble, where are some of the places we cannot, ...
In some of the old Billiard News editions, a few pool playing attorneys wrote in and gave us lotsa info...
In general, the laws in most states... As long as the gambling takes place between just the players at the table, gambling was perfectly legal, but if an outside party was involved, that outside party was breaking the law..."a form of bookmaking".
Obviously, a tournament is more than a couple of players directly involved, but as a "Calcutta" involves outside participants, it is usually illegal.
note* once in southern california, there was a policeman who liked to gamble with the local pool players, after he lost too much
he busted the players for gambling...after many complaints to the powers that be...he wasn't around much.
