The "new" 9-ball: Changing the game to reflect the new equipment

Shawn Armstrong

Shawn Armstrong

AZB deceased - stopped posting 5/13/2022
Silver Member
I am one of the "minority" that hates jump cues. I think it is a gimmick, and is a bought skill, not a learned skill. I am not against jump shots, provided they are played with a regulation cue, and that being either your playing cue or your break cue.

I think the rules of 9-Ball should be changed to reflect the addition of the jump cue into the world of pool. I appreciate a good safety. Unfortunately, you pretty much have to freeze someone to the ball now to not allow them to jump out of your hook. If you are making the cueball travel long distances, nothing is more frustrating than playing a great hook to within 3" of the blocker, and the guy goes to his bag and pogo sticks out of your well played safety. So, here's my proposed rule change:

1) Player is made to identify if he will or will not be using a jump cue for the match.
2) If you choose to play without the jump cue, then normal rules apply.
3) If you do choose to use shorty, foul rules are changed. The changes are: 3 consecutive fouls constitutes a loss of match, not loss of game. Also, the player choosing to not use the jump cue can declare "safety" before he shoots his shot. At the end of that shot, the jump cue cannot be used by the opponent. This way, if it's a fluke safety, the player can use the jumper without penalty. If the safety is declared, then no pogo.

Just my ramblings.
 
I use a jump cue but rarely. What I have done instead of trying to change a rule is I have been working on my safety play to make them tighter. I even took a safety seminar from a local teacher. I am not trying to argue the merits of a jump cue I just try and play better safeties. JMHO
By the way, your idea is a good one and if those were the rules of a particular tournament - I would have no problem playing by them.

BVal
 
I agree on the tighter safety play. But let's say you float the cueball three rails, traveling 13 feet or more, and put the cueball behind the blocker within 2"? That's a damn good safety. Players can still jump out of that hook. I never thought I'd see the day when you'd have to freeze players to balls to have a chance at BIH.
 
The game is simply too flawed to be fixed!! Stop trying!! :)

Steve <-- promises no more 9-ball diatribes for another 3 months.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
I agree on the tighter safety play. But let's say you float the cueball three rails, traveling 13 feet or more, and put the cueball behind the blocker within 2"? That's a damn good safety. Players can still jump out of that hook. I never thought I'd see the day when you'd have to freeze players to balls to have a chance at BIH.
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What are the odds of the average player actually making that jump shot (unless it is a hanger) or actually making it over the blocker from 2 inches? A pro player is a different circumstance obviously. 2 inches is a pretty tight jump over a full ball.

BVal
 
BVal said:
What are the odds of the average player actually making that jump shot (unless it is a hanger) or actually making it over the blocker from 2 inches? A pro player is a different circumstance obviously. 2 inches is a pretty tight jump over a full ball.

BVal
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Exactly. They may be able to jump at the ball but that doesn't mean they're going to make it...especially if they're jumping over a ball so close. It's still a good safety because even if they jump it, they are most likely going to miss and possibly leave you the run out. It's very hard to control shape after a jump shot. That's my opinion on it anyway.
 
Let's say 3" or 4". That, to me, is a great safety. If your opponent can kick well, he'll get to the ball. Like Grady said, it takes 5 minutes to learn how to jump. It takes a lifetime to learn how to kick well.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
I am one of the "minority" that hates jump cues. I think it is a gimmick, and is a bought skill, not a learned skill. I am not against jump shots, provided they are played with a regulation cue, and that being either your playing cue or your break cue.

I think the rules of 9-Ball should be changed to reflect the addition of the jump cue into the world of pool. I appreciate a good safety. Unfortunately, you pretty much have to freeze someone to the ball now to not allow them to jump out of your hook. If you are making the cueball travel long distances, nothing is more frustrating than playing a great hook to within 3" of the blocker, and the guy goes to his bag and pogo sticks out of your well played safety. So, here's my proposed rule change:

1) Player is made to identify if he will or will not be using a jump cue for the match.
2) If you choose to play without the jump cue, then normal rules apply.
3) If you do choose to use shorty, foul rules are changed. The changes are: 3 consecutive fouls constitutes a loss of match, not loss of game. Also, the player choosing to not use the jump cue can declare "safety" before he shoots his shot. At the end of that shot, the jump cue cannot be used by the opponent. This way, if it's a fluke safety, the player can use the jumper without penalty. If the safety is declared, then no pogo.

Just my ramblings.
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Read my signature.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
I agree on the tighter safety play. But let's say you float the cueball three rails, traveling 13 feet or more, and put the cueball behind the blocker within 2"? That's a damn good safety. Players can still jump out of that hook. I never thought I'd see the day when you'd have to freeze players to balls to have a chance at BIH.
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I completly agree.. i used to use a jump cue.. when i would pull it out, I could see the look of disgust from the person I was playing..(which was usually a better player). Now that i am a better player I understand why the better players didnt like it. I dont use it anymore, and i am the one now that gets the look of digust when someone pulls it out on me... as for your rule change.. I dont agree.. I think they should ban jump cues all together.. if you wanna jump...do so...but do it with either your break cue or your playing cue. but there is too much money involved in the making and selling of jump cues.. therefore..i doubt that will ever happen.
 
Most times you will see a player kick at it because that's the only way they can hope to play a safety back.
 
3-4 inches is a good safety - I wouldn't call it great. To me great would be 2 or less. Also it takes a long time to do either one of those shots WELL (jump or kick). As far as learning how to do it. Anyone can kick at a shot without any experience at all. HITTING the ball is another story. It takes longer to be able to jump than it does to be able to kick at a ball. My wife can kick at balls well. She has a jump/break cue but can only get the ball to leave the table 2 out of 10 times maybe. She has practiced learing how to jump much longer than 5 minutes. She plays well too.

BVal
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Let's say 3" or 4". That, to me, is a great safety. If your opponent can kick well, he'll get to the ball. Like Grady said, it takes 5 minutes to learn how to jump. It takes a lifetime to learn how to kick well.
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It takes 5 minutes to learn the proper technique for jumping with a jump cue, it takes far longer to master the skill.

It also takes five minutes to learn the diamond systems to be able to kick and it takes far longer to master the skill.

IF Grady said then I disagree with him and could show him why in a few minutes. I know that Grady is reasonable and open so IF we were to have that conversation then I predict Grady would have something else to say afterward.

What do you propose to do about the times when you miss a ball completely and get a lucky safety? Should the opponent have to be punished for your mistake?

If you play a good safe and the opponent successfully jumps out of it then they made a good shot. What if they kicked at it and missed the ball by two diamonds and the cueball went around the table and came back to hit the object ball and resafed you? Would you ask them to announce the rail path before hand to prevent luck like that? You act as though people who kick are better than people who jump.

Neither is better, they are tow distinct skillsets that must be mastered in order to play modern 9 ball successfully.

The better player knows when to kick and when to jump and how to do both.

Why don't you lobby for a return to the two-foul pushout rule? Then you don't need to worry about jumping or kicking. You can just push out every shot. Seriously, until I see a cue, jump or otherwise, take a shot by itself I will consider the whole anti-jump cue argument to be just sour grapes by people who think just because they manage to hide a ball that they should then be allowed to tell their opponent what they are allowed to do to escape it.

The player takes the shot - not the cue. The player is the one that has to calculate the speed, spin, and trajectory not the cue. The player is the one who had to develop their feel and finesse to jump with just the right speed and spin to succeed on the shot. So you played a good safety, well now I need to play a good jump shot to hit the object ball and not sell out.

What would you say if a player had a book at the table which showed him how to kick. So you play your great safety and he looks at it and goes to the book and finds "three rail kick" - never did one before but the book tells him how to calculate it and what to adjust for. Then he hits the ball square and resafes you. Bought skill?
 
I don't think people who MAKE or SELL jump cues can have a totally unbiased opinion, John. Sorry.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
I don't think people who MAKE or SELL jump cues can have a totally unbiased opinion, John. Sorry.
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I don't think anyone except for a non pool player who knows nothing about pool in the first place has an unbiased opinion, but what good would that do? I have a lot of respect for Grady but is his opinion unbiased? or is it much more relevant because his opinion is the same as yours?

BVal
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
I don't think people who MAKE or SELL jump cues can have a totally unbiased opinion, John. Sorry.
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Dude..
every website sells 'em
99% of pool rooms with pro shops sell'em
Hell I dont like 'em but I own one just to keep things even....and I flip a few now and then ....

you cannot get away from them.. they are everywhere...
you can of course keep out of your personnal gambles, but that is a different thing all together...
 
seven said:
I completly agree.. i used to use a jump cue.. when i would pull it out, I could see the look of disgust from the person I was playing..(which was usually a better player). Now that i am a better player I understand why the better players didnt like it. I dont use it anymore, and i am the one now that gets the look of digust when someone pulls it out on me... as for your rule change.. I dont agree.. I think they should ban jump cues all together.. if you wanna jump...do so...but do it with either your break cue or your playing cue. but there is too much money involved in the making and selling of jump cues.. therefore..i doubt that will ever happen.
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I don't know where you play but where I play the better players LOVE to see the weaker players pull out a jump cue because they know that a sellout is about to happen.

I favor banning all cues except one Valley house cue. We should all play with the EXACT same equipment. That way no one has a cue that "breaks" better, deflects less, spins more, jumps better, feels better and so on. Because the cues are obviously the major diffference in who wins and who loses so it's only fair that we all agree to use the same spec cue.

You all seriously think that the jump cue sales are so significant that it influences the rule makers? If so then I can tell you that such a line of thinking is way out of line.

I will say this, jump cue and jump break cue makers have put a lot back into the game over the years. Y'all ought to recognize that. And some of the most intense and entertaining shots throughout the years have been jump shots under pressure.

Right now jump cues are just part of the game because the game demands it under the current rules. Jump shots are allowed so therefore it is allowed to have jump cues that do not harm the equipment and which resemble a playing cue.

Ban the jump shot. Then jump cues would go away. Add a rule to call all shots and safeties or face a ball in hand penalty and that will take care of the lucky-safe punishment.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "The Shot" that every pool player talks about when recalling the best hill-hill, exciting, pressure filled shot a kick?
 
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