THICK VS THIN SHAFTS

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bbb

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i am referring primarily to low deflection shafts but i guess it could be extrapolated to regular shafts.
as a general rule smaller diameter results in less end mass so lower deflection
but also the contact point on the cue ball is more focused/narrower
therefore less margin of error(if this assumption is wrong tell me and forget about this thread)
so my question is this
if someone has difficulty in hitting perfect vertical axis shots ie shots or kicks with no spin
would a shaft of similar quality to what they are used to but alittle fatter be better?
i play with an 11.8 revo and sometimes get unintentional spin
i am working to correct that
but would going to a 12.4 or 12.8/9 revo be better for me?
your thoughts appreciated
 
bbb said:
i am referring primarily to low deflection shafts but i guess it could be extrapolated to regular shafts.
as a general rule smaller diameter results in less end mass so lower deflection
but also the contact point on the cue ball is more focused/narrower
therefore less margin of error(if this assumption is wrong tell me and forget about this thread)
Click to expand...
Sorry to be the one, Larry, but a smaller tip is just the middle 90% of a larger one. Nothing about accuracy or margin of error changes at all, only how it looks to you.

Besides the low squirt benefit, I like it because I can see more clearly where on the smaller tip I'm hitting the ball.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Sorry to be the one, Larry, but a smaller tip is just the middle 90% of a larger one. Nothing about accuracy or margin of error changes at all, only how it looks to you.

Besides the low squirt benefit, I like it because I can see more clearly where on the smaller tip I'm hitting the ball.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Thanks patrick
i do see where i hit the ball better with the smaller tip
 
Isn’t this an age old pool question? I think its pretty widely accepted that a bigger, flatter tip is more forgiving but I also think Patrick & others are on record for decades saying the physics don’t support it. No one seems to really know for sure…

I personally don’t find fat vs skinny shaft to affect stroke accuracy. But, rather than trying to extract any sense of what anyone around here pontificates, maybe just try a flatter radius on your current Revo tip or borrow a Revo 12.9 (with same tip/shape as your current one) from someone and test yourself.

I think you’ll find that there are so many micro variables/tradeoffs with tip type, tip shape, hardness, ferrule size, shaft taper, deflection, visuals - that you’ll end up chasing your tail forever and finally figuring out that no stick or tip is going to really help fix any error in fundamentals

If you already know you’re having trouble hitting the vertical axis, wouldn’t it be best to invest your energy/time on resolving that? Any decent instructor, buddy, or just your own camera carefully watching you do standard stroke drills from different angles - should be able to help diagnose root cause in your stance, grip, vision/alignment, stroke. Once you ID the problem, probably will take a few days/weeks to train it away, depending on how bad it is and how serious you are about it.

Good luck
 
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Renegade_56 said:
I would think tip shape would have more effect than shaft size, meaning a nickel shape would have a larger footprint than a dime
Click to expand...
I would also, but diameter & radius of tip have a fixed relationship that makes it complex to ascertain which factor is really contributing. Also, is the effect due to decreased accuracy at point of contact due to smaller sweet spot, or added spin? If its the spin, is it from size/shape or from softness of tip, or longer tip grab time at impact? Or lower deflection? Masters vs Toam chalk? And on & on it goes…

Dr. Dave’s page on the topic is unable to really make up its mind, and is mostly a collection of Internet opinions.

All micro variables & tradeoffs that don’t really matter IMO, Indian vs arrow is the real answer. Pick something you like & get better with it, my $0.00002
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Yes, any difference would be due to curvature, not width. I doubt it differs a meaningful amount.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
probably, but likely at least some more than a layer of extra wood around a shaft that doesn't contact the cue ball. Most of us can't hit a cue ball as accurately as we think we can, or should.
 
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phreaticus said:
Isn’t this an age old pool question? I think its pretty widely accepted that a bigger, flatter tip is more forgiving but I also think Patrick & others are on record for decades saying the physics don’t support it. No one seems to really know for sure…

I personally don’t find fat vs skinny shaft to affect stroke accuracy. But, rather than trying to extract any sense of what anyone around here pontificates, maybe just try a flatter radius on your current Revo tip or borrow a Revo 12.9 (with same tip/shape as your current one) from someone and test yourself.

I think you’ll find that there are so many micro variables/tradeoffs with tip type, tip shape, hardness, ferrule size, shaft taper, deflection, visuals - that you’ll end up chasing your tail forever and finally figuring out that no stick or tip is going to really help fix any error in fundamentals

If you already know you’re having trouble hitting the vertical axis, wouldn’t it be best to invest your energy/time on resolving that? Any decent instructor, buddy, or just your own camera carefully watching you do standard stroke drills from different angles - should be able to help diagnose root cause in your stance, grip, vision/alignment, stroke. Once you ID the problem, probably will take a few days/weeks to train it away, depending on how bad it is and how serious you are about it.

Good luck
Click to expand...
i am working on improving my fundamentals and with me alot of it is my vision issues.
training my brain to see the right "picture" is taking time but it is working ie its improving.
someone at my pool room ( a much better player than me) mentioned the issue of me using the smaller shaft
that is what made me ask the question here
 
Lots of arguments on this. But i have been told larger diameter shafts are more forgiving on accuracy. While smaller shafts can put more spin on the ball. Personally I'm using 12.5mm. I don't see much accuracy improvement with a larger diameter shaft, but I do see more action on the cue ball with a thinner shaft
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Sorry to be the one, Larry, but a smaller tip is just the middle 90% of a larger one. Nothing about accuracy or margin of error changes at all, only how it looks to you.

Besides the low squirt benefit, I like it because I can see more clearly where on the smaller tip I'm hitting the ball.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

do we always strike with the center of the tip?
dont we hit with the shoulder sometimes?
 
bbb said:
i am working on improving my fundamentals and with me alot of it is my vision issues.
training my brain to see the right "picture" is taking time but it is working ie its improving.
someone at my pool room ( a much better player than me) mentioned the issue of me using the smaller shaft
that is what made me ask the question here
Click to expand...
Good luck with your training. The general view held by most is that skinny shafts are more “accurate”, and fat shafts are more “forgiving”. Your buddy may be right, you’ll just have to experiment. Since you are working on vertical axis only, deflection variance shouldn’t be much of a factor - trying a fatter Revo with same tip as you have now, would be the most efficient way to test the theory on yourself. Have fun & let us know how it goes.
 
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Texas Carom Club said:
do we always strike with the center of the tip?
dont we hit with the shoulder sometimes?
Click to expand...
Depends on tip width/shape - a narrow, flatter tip (like an 11mm with a nickel curve) will hit on the shoulder a little before getting to the miscue limit on the CB, but a wider tip with a sharper curve (like a 13mm with a dime curve) can get all the way to the miscue limit on the CB without hitting on the shoulder. At most it's a small minority of shots - unless you play with lots of maximum spin.

pj
chgo
 
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