UK pool player / Where to base in USA?

[Number1]

Hi guys, I am an English guy who really wants to go to the states to play on a tour or turn Pro?

I want to base myself in the best spot to play as much pool as possible and learn from great players. I love Vegas, NYC, Miame but I'm not sure which is the best place to be based. I just want to play in many tournaments and play on a tour if possible?

Also, any advice on hw to turn Pro and whether this is the best option would also be appreciated?

[I have been playing since very young, won mnay UK national events, have made 139 break at snooker and recently ran 13th in the BCA Las Vegas Open!.]

Cheers

Craig

 

[ceebee]

there's a phrase, that came out of a Movie, that is applicable here..., "Build it & they will come". If you go to anywhere in America & build yourself a reputation for Playing & Gambling..., the "Players" will come to see you & compete. If you start WINNING Tournaments, the word will spread all across America like e-mail on Sunday morning.

Being that you are from the UK (England), I would suggest the Portland/Seattle area for settling first, because of the similar climate. If you bounce in here to Kansas City, Chicago, Dallas/Ft Worth or Los Angeles areas... the summer will send you back home.

Turning Pro... hmm? The term "Professional", used to mean >>> that's how you made your living. That still holds true to some extent. If NIKE "gave" (<< keyword) you $50,000,000 to start off on the Tour, you might be a World beater like Tiger Woods is on the Professional Golf Tour. Come over with the "GOAL IN MIND" of lasting 90 days & see if you can still afford to eat & pay the rent for the 4th month. Establishing small goals to meet, will provide good building blocks for reaching loftier goals.

If you come to America & beat the pants off your competitors & take their "LUNCH MONEY" away from them, you'll soon be facing tougher odds. Turning to the Pool Rool for your living is a "tough row to hoe" (phrase from the southern Cotton plantations). But if you are good enough & SMART (keyword) enough, you'll have some fun & make some money too. Good Luck

 

[Warren]

Hi guys, I am an English guy who really wants to go to the states to play on a tour or turn Pro?

I want to base myself in the best spot to play as much pool as possible and learn from great players. I love Vegas, NYC, Miame but I'm not sure which is the best place to be based. I just want to play in many tournaments and play on a tour if possible?

Also, any advice on hw to turn Pro and whether this is the best option would also be appreciated?

[I have been playing since very young, won mnay UK national events, have made 139 break at snooker and recently ran 13th in the BCA Las Vegas Open!.]

Cheers

Craig

hi craig. please don't take anything i say the wrong way, i am just giving you the facts as i see them (or maybe i should say my opinion). firstly congrats on your high finish at the bca open amateurs. but i gotta tell ya, its a long way from there to turning pro. if you had placed that high in the masters, i'd say you had a decent shot at maybe getting in the money on the viking tour or something.

i have also chatted to somebody who knows you and your game (darren appleton) and he gave me an honest appraisal and said you have no chance, at least not right now, to play on the pro "tour". so my advice is this: if you have the money to finance yourself for 3 months or whatever, and you goal is to improve and see if you get the feeling you can take it to another level, then go for it. but if you think you can come over and make an actual living "touring" than i am afraid your in for a bad surprise. your game is not that good. mick hill (who i understood alleviated you of some of your winnings ) and darren himself would struggle to makes ends meet on any tour here, without successful gambling on the side. and those guys are world class. i am not sure how good you are at "hustling" or making a game, if you are good at matching up then maybe you could make it, but no way based on tourney winnings alone. again, i remind you i am just telling you like it is, and i talked to daz for your own benefit, not mine.

that being said, i think the joss tour is a bit out of your league at the moment, as it is generally the toughest of the tours. While you will see many of the best players, and you can certainly learn by watching, your not going to elevate your game by going 2 and out and sitting around.

the viking tour is a bit easier, although they still have some world beaters. you'd have alot better chance there, but the problem is the tourneys are very spread out. i'd say central ohio or thereabouts would be the best place to base yourself for that tour, but it'd be quite a bit of travel.

my guess is florida may be your best bet. although i wouldn't pick miami. i don't have a map in front of me but i think miami is pretty far south, you'd wanna be more centrally located for travelling. i'd pick tampa or orlando. several english players have also made florida a home or stop at one point (tony crosby, richard broumpton, steve knight).

the west coast may be another option, but i wouldn't pick vegas. move a little west into southern cal -- close enough to vegas, plus alot more going on for tourneys.

anyway, that's my 2 cents, good luck mate, warren..

 

[thewolf]

Hi,

Yea i have to agree with warren.. though ive never seen u play and stuff... there r tons of great players playing the joss tour.. even good players have a hard time making it on that tour.. i dont wanna discourage u of anything.. just be PREPARED heavy competition with santos,ronnie,even mike is a great player... sometimes not all mika, earl or neone of those guys could be there... plus the tournaments dont pay huge$$$$ .. but hey hang in there give it a whirl.. got nothing to lose

 

[Number1]

Mistaken Identity!

Hi warren /Guys, thanks for all your advice. Just to clarify as I think Darren / Mick have got me misken for one of my team mates - I never played either of them for money (although a few of my mates did and they didn't finish that much down and they where by no means pro standard).

I am not saying I'm going to walk straight into a tour and start winning comps but I have faith in my ability and I think I can make a name for myself with time. I agree that the BCA was not much of a test but to be honest it the open was much harder than the masters (2000 players compared to about 180) and basically the same standard from what I saw. I don't know if this is much of a guide but by the end of the week I started to play better, in the team event I potted out first visit about 25 times in 30 matches, room for improvement but not too bad?


I guess the thing is I've had a good 7 years completely out the game(Uni and working), but during this time I still seem to beat anybody I play. My home town in England is probably the number one cue sports town in the UK (at least 5 top 64 snooker pro's in recent times and 2 top 32 pool pro's) and I have been the number one money player there for the past 12 years. I ran 13th in vegas playing at a fraction of the level I am capable of (I run an IT company which means I have no life, and little time to practice!)

What I want to do is go to NYC or whever and live in the pool halls and play on a tour, it will probably take me a year or so to get back to a high level but I know if I'm putting in the hours that darren appleton and Mick hill put in then there's nothing to be scared of on the Pro scene. I spent a year in the US a few years ago travelling and I know all the big cities, just love the pool halls and from what I've seen the standard isn't what it should be (given the size of the pockets, tables etc..)

Cheers

Craig

 

[thewolf]

Hi, Craig

Well u sound very confident in ur ability that is always a good thing... who knows maybe everything will pan out for ya..... maybe we shal cross paths oneday ... good luck

 

[Number1]

Yeah I guess, but if you don't belive in yourself whats the point in playing! You see I'm not interested in the money (well almost I just want to be the best. I've thrown away lots of money in my time by just playing the best players rather than playing lesser players for easy money first.

I just want to give it a go, better than always wondering!

Cheers

Craig

 

[Warren]

Re: Mistaken Identity!

Hi warren /Guys, thanks for all your advice. Just to clarify as I think Darren / Mick have got me misken for one of my team mates - I never played either of them for money (although a few of my mates did and they didn't finish that much down and they where by no means pro standard).

I am not saying I'm going to walk straight into a tour and start winning comps but I have faith in my ability and I think I can make a name for myself with time. I agree that the BCA was not much of a test but to be honest it the open was much harder than the masters (2000 players compared to about 180) and basically the same standard from what I saw. I don't know if this is much of a guide but by the end of the week I started to play better, in the team event I potted out first visit about 25 times in 30 matches, room for improvement but not too bad?


I guess the thing is I've had a good 7 years completely out the game(Uni and working), but during this time I still seem to beat anybody I play. My home town in England is probably the number one cue sports town in the UK (at least 5 top 64 snooker pro's in recent times and 2 top 32 pool pro's) and I have been the number one money player there for the past 12 years. I ran 13th in vegas playing at a fraction of the level I am capable of (I run an IT company which means I have no life, and little time to practice!)

What I want to do is go to NYC or whever and live in the pool halls and play on a tour, it will probably take me a year or so to get back to a high level but I know if I'm putting in the hours that darren appleton and Mick hill put in then there's nothing to be scared of on the Pro scene. I spent a year in the US a few years ago travelling and I know all the big cities, just love the pool halls and from what I've seen the standard isn't what it should be (given the size of the pockets, tables etc..)

Cheers

Craig

hey craig....daz may have gotten confused about who mick was playing, he knows so many people he may have gotten confused. however, he seemed to know who you are, but perhaps he doesn't realize your not playing your best as you stated.

ok, if you want to play THE BEST, then the joss tour is the way to go, plus the pro events. right now, in the states, there is no standard for the men for being a pro, basically all of the events are open, and anyone can play (you may have to join some organizations, but again there is no prerequisites).

i still think florida is the best place for you to center your operations, and the tour gremlin mentioned looks like an excellent one. plus there are many tours and tourneys in that area. then again NYC wouldn't be bad either, and the weather may be more to your liking!

i'm curious about a couple of things. where in england were/are you located (you said it might be the best area in terms of player strength)? when you say 2 top-32 pool players, do you mean english 8 ball or the uk 9 ball tour? i assume your not talking about world rankings.

i wasn't in vegas (although azhousepro was) but i am quite surprised by your statement that you felt the class of players was the same in the open and the masters. i understand that there is far more players in the open, but it is the OPEN which means there is crappy players like me in there (lol) which i think dilutes the field pretty strongly. when i read the list of players who placed in the masters, jeeze i recognized about 25 or so names, these are basically pro level players. i didn't recognize anyone in the open list (at least at first glance) except one guy i know from the billiard forums, who honestly ranks his game as a solid B. bobby pickle won the open last year (and quite easily as i understand it) and i think he finished 33rd or 65th this year in the masters. i have a hard time believing the standards are about the same! not to belittle your accomplishment, i just think the masters looks like a much stronger field.

one last question, what do you mean by you are the best money player in your area? not that i don't believe you but it seems this is a popular distinction for english players to bring up, but it is never clear to me exactly what they mean? does this simply mean you are the best player? the one with the most bottle? the one who will bet the highest? the one with the best winning percentage in money games? the one who is not afraid to play anybody for any amount? i bring this up, because many consider darren appleton to be the best money player (in english 8 ball) but the problem is no one will play him! his winning percentage in money games is outrageous (something like 97%). in the usa, this wouldn't be considered the best, it'd be more like a "lock-artist". what is your definition?

also, consider the us open, and trying to qualify for the WPC in cardiff!

later, warren..

 

[Number1]

All this advice does seem to point to Miami or NYC, I don't mind the heat I spent many years travelling, lived in Vegas,Miami,NYC,Asia, and Australia gets quite hot too I have a few few friends in NYC and know it quite well, also not long flight back to blighty if I start missing the fish and chips! lol

Its good to hear there's nothing stopping me getting on a tour, just pay my money and open up a large can of whup ass on the so called Pro's!.

I only watched a bit of the masters but didn't see a lot of difference from the top 64 in the open, I know there where loads of crap players in the open but they soon get weeded out. The thing is the top 64 finishers in the open each year have to play in the masters next year I think? so it is basically the same players. But hey Ive been out the game so long what do I know! I guess I'll find out next year in the masters! :-]

bobby pickle, finished way down, what a suprise, I hear he played some amazing stuff last year but I also hear he'd lost all his winnings the first night he got paid? To be honest after watching him make a fool of himself against some poor kid on the money tables I'm not suprised. He was a disgrace, he was acting all drunk*even though everyone knew he was acting!) and dancing around, which is fine if you want to play the dick but he was doing it while the other guy was playing his shots - which you just don't do. But I believe some kid took him for big money again this year?

As for the references to money players in my area, they where all UK references. And I guess what I mean by being the best money player is that I beat everyone for money. Also twice I beat a pro when I literally hadn't picked a cue up for 2 years and they where practicing 8 hours a day or whatever, I beat one guy with my mates cue after my tip fell off!!! He was ranked top 16 in UK at the time! And a couple of years ago I oraganised a comp where the best pool players in town put their money up and we all play each other to see who's best, winner takes all. None of the Snooker players would enter and one of the Pro's wouldn't (as I'd already beat him cueless , I beat them all, this was after 4 years at Uni and 2 years travelling!

Darren may not remember but I also ran into him when I was a young kid, we where a similar age. I beat his mate 7:2 (I did play really well that night) for money and he beat one of my mates. He asked me to play that night but he wouldn't play me at 8 ball, he wanted to play me at 14:1 - we didn't play in the end but most people who knew us both thought I was a better player than him at the time. But I know that all doesn't really count for shit because he stuck at it and earned his reputation.

My home town is called Grimsby Town by the way (sexy name I know!).
I would love to play in cardiff and the us open, just a little tricky from Oz! Considering the manilla and tapai IBC tour stops though? When/where's the us open?

Where you from Warren, how you know darren so well?

Cheers

Craig

 

[Warren]

bobby pickle, finished way down, what a suprise, I hear he played some amazing stuff last year but I also hear he'd lost all his winnings the first night he got paid? To be honest after watching him make a fool of himself against some poor kid on the money tables I'm not suprised. He was a disgrace, he was acting all drunk*even though everyone knew he was acting!) and dancing around, which is fine if you want to play the dick but he was doing it while the other guy was playing his shots - which you just don't do. But I believe some kid took him for big money again this year?

My home town is called Grimsby Town by the way (sexy name I know!).
I would love to play in cardiff and the us open, just a little tricky from Oz! Considering the manilla and tapai IBC tour stops though? When/where's the us open?

Where you from Warren, how you know darren so well?

Cheers

Craig

darren definitely knows you then, cause that is exactly where he said you were from. i have never met him in person, so i guess you can say i don't know him all that well! i have chatted with him many times on the internet, and i have found him to be a very accurate judge of talent. of course, if you are out of form, he would not know that. you should take a stop by www.uk-pool.com (run by darren's manager, lee holdsworth (nickname elbeer)) and www.uk8ball.com which is an extremely popular english 8 ball site, and also where I chatted with daz about you. you will also notice on the latter site a huge promotion of a money match between daz and ross mcinness (for 30 g's u.s. +).

i have forgotten this years stories already, although i remember hearing pickle once again went off and lost. last year the famous story was him getting hustled by ryan mcreesh and evgengy stalev. funny thing is is my local town (lexington, kentucky) i have heard reliable stories of him losing 20K by giving up too much weight to a kid. he is either independently wealthy, has a big backer, or must win big sometimes! from what i hear he is very entertaining and is very thirsty (for budweisers!)

the us open is in september in chesapeake, virginia i think (others can confirm). i'd still advise trying to make the qualifiers for cardiff if you can, as it seems money isn't a problem for you.

btw, don't be so sure pickle was "acting" drunk! based on what i have heard, he packs them away at a vigorous pace! i'd like to meet the man myself.

good luck man, and let us know your plans so we can keep an eye out.

later, warren..

 

[Ken in CT]

Craig, Why don't you just play snooker and make some real money? There's no profit to be made in pool in the States. We have 200 players chasing enough money to support 10.

The only thing you get when you are labeled a pro is that you can't enter amateur tournaments. That pretty much guarantees that you won't make a living at it.

You will probably find the most action in the Philly/NYC area. There's where you might make some money, but not from the tournaments.
Ken in CT

 

[Number1]

Probably lost all chance of a snooker caerer when I gave up my snooker apprentiship to go to Uni. Snooker is a young mans game, there's 12 year old kids with 100+ breaks in competition in my home town, not much chance for a 29 year old! :-(

But I love pool and as I said I'm not really in it for the money, and 25 comps a year+ in NYC sounds fantastic!

Thanks for all the advice guys look forward to playing any of you gusy in person some day.

Cheers

Craig