R
Rosewater
Guest
Any comments as to what the UPA brings to the table when it comes to a tournament? We have been watching their website and are wondering what influence they really have over their membership.
Great question and very deserving of an answer, Rosewater.
Reasons to be sanctioned by UPA:
All UPA professionals and members will be notified via newsletter and e-mail of the event.
UPA professionals will want to gain ranking points by attending the event Rankings are important for invitational events such as The World Championships, All-Japan Open, Mosconi Cup Team .... etc. ).
Players will want attend to improve or hold their seeding status by attending all UPA Sanctioned Events.
The UPA will help promote the event through its web site, newsletters, and other media connections such as Inside Pool, Pool and Billiards, and Billiards Digest.
The UPA can increase the prestige of the event and help promoters gain additional sponsors.
The event will be recognized by players and the public through magazines and other media outlets as an official event recognized and supported by the professionals.
Additional benefits include:
- A UPA flyer of your event designed by our UPA Flyer Designer professionally done in color with committed UPA pros advertised on flyer.
- A page on our web site dedicated in advertising your event
- UPA pros visiting your area prior to event doing appearances and exhibitions to promote your event (additional fees apply).
ManlyShot
Reasons to be sanctioned by UPA:
All UPA professionals and members will be notified via newsletter and e-mail of the event.
UPA professionals will want to gain ranking points by attending the event Rankings are important for invitational events such as The World Championships, All-Japan Open, Mosconi Cup Team .... etc. ).
Players will want attend to improve or hold their seeding status by attending all UPA Sanctioned Events.
The UPA will help promote the event through its web site, newsletters, and other media connections such as Inside Pool, Pool and Billiards, and Billiards Digest.
The UPA can increase the prestige of the event and help promoters gain additional sponsors.
The event will be recognized by players and the public through magazines and other media outlets as an official event recognized and supported by the professionals.
Additional benefits include:
- A UPA flyer of your event designed by our UPA Flyer Designer professionally done in color with committed UPA pros advertised on flyer.
- A page on our web site dedicated in advertising your event
- UPA pros visiting your area prior to event doing appearances and exhibitions to promote your event (additional fees apply).
ManlyShot
Now that Charlie has stepped down, Maybe some things can get resolved with the OPEN and the UPA could really take off and change pool.
One thing you left out about the UPA is any pro that plays in a UPA event knows that the money is guaranteed and WILL GET PAID IN FULL. I'm just a pretty good player and there is nothing I hate more than driving four hours and playing in a 500 added tournament and having no money added at all. No, It did not have anything on the flyer about based on 32 or 64 players or whatever. If I were a PRO....I would want to file a lawsuit over something like that.
One thing you left out about the UPA is any pro that plays in a UPA event knows that the money is guaranteed and WILL GET PAID IN FULL. I'm just a pretty good player and there is nothing I hate more than driving four hours and playing in a 500 added tournament and having no money added at all. No, It did not have anything on the flyer about based on 32 or 64 players or whatever. If I were a PRO....I would want to file a lawsuit over something like that.
K
Ken in CT
Guest
There is only one tangible benefit to going through the extreme pain of getting a UPA sanction. You lose control of your own tournanent. You let CW dictate to all comers what hoops they must jump through to play in your?? event.
In exchange, CW agrees not to tell all his?? pros to avoid your event. He will not schedule another event on the same day of your event and force all his?? pros to attend that event (as if he has the resources to hold events to conflict with all the other promoters; what a joke!).
The tactics of the UPA clearly involve extortion and interstate racketeering. They rely on the reluctance of players to apply for injunctions to prevent their illegal demands. They ignore their own published statements, so it is useless to quote what they say on their web site.
Earl could have put them out of business 2 years ago. Everyone who becomes a member subjects himself to lawsuits that could ruin him financially.
Ken in CT
In exchange, CW agrees not to tell all his?? pros to avoid your event. He will not schedule another event on the same day of your event and force all his?? pros to attend that event (as if he has the resources to hold events to conflict with all the other promoters; what a joke!).
The tactics of the UPA clearly involve extortion and interstate racketeering. They rely on the reluctance of players to apply for injunctions to prevent their illegal demands. They ignore their own published statements, so it is useless to quote what they say on their web site.
Earl could have put them out of business 2 years ago. Everyone who becomes a member subjects himself to lawsuits that could ruin him financially.
Ken in CT
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Ken in CT,
How does entering into a bargained for agreement amount to interstate racketeering? If tournament directors don't want to submit to the conditions set out by the UPA then they don't have to do business with the UPA, right?
Can you give some examples of the UPA's "illegal demands"? Please understand that I am not trying to suggest that you can't, I am genuinely interested in what these demands sound like.
kollegedave
How does entering into a bargained for agreement amount to interstate racketeering? If tournament directors don't want to submit to the conditions set out by the UPA then they don't have to do business with the UPA, right?
Can you give some examples of the UPA's "illegal demands"? Please understand that I am not trying to suggest that you can't, I am genuinely interested in what these demands sound like.
kollegedave
Ken in CT said:
K
Ken in CT
Guest
kollegedave said:
The simple answer is that CW threatens a boycott of any event that turns down his demand that they become sanctioned. Boycotts are legal in some circumstances. Particularly, if you are head of a union and are bargaining for the members.
It is not legal for the head of a union (which the UPA clearly is) to threaten a boycott if he is also a member who stands to benefit from the results of the boycott. Obviously, it is interstate commerce since the UPA operates in more than one state.
What CW does is probably extortion and since it involves interstate commerce it would be a federal violation of the RICO Act.
Another illegal thing he does is tell certain players that they may not take advantage of the clearly posted item on their website that permits them to enter a sanctioned tournament if they pay a fee of $25. CW has come up with the term "touring pro" that he can label someone. He then will not permit those players to take advantage of the conditions that are posted. He insists that they join as full members at the $100 level. They then become indentured servants of the UPA.
They are required to sign a contract that says they must play in all UPA events or they are in violation. In addition, the contract says that they will admit they are guilty if they are taken to court for not traveling to a tournament. Thus, the players are required to give up their right to due process.
I have been told that they are still negotiating with promoters in this manner even if Charley the Dragon is no longer president. I believe they have let up a bit with the players.
Ken in CT
First, CW has stepped down, correct?
The contract players sign that stipulates to liability is called a "cognovit note" and the supreme court has said that such notes, while perhaps underhanded, are legal. So, you are absolutely correct in saying that "the players "give up their right to due process". However, the players are not "required" to do so, as they can simply choose not to sign and not to become a member.
One of the things that I guess I don't understand is why would a player would become a member if the UPA, if it is so bad? What has the UPA done to get such leverage on players?
Also, while the UPA, I guess...I don't really know, may be engaging in some underhanded conduct now, doesn't pool stand to gain quite a bit from a large and credible governing body of professional pool that can have the ability to garner large sponsors and stipulate to the skill level on tour? When the PGA was in its infancy I bet it didn't always act "saintly" to its players and promoters. i.e exclusion of minority players.
What I mean to say, is that professional pool may become more marketable if tournament sponors are guaranteed a certain skill level of players so when they (hopefully someday) put pool on TV there is not a match of Efren against me.
Thanks for answering my questions before
kollegedave
The contract players sign that stipulates to liability is called a "cognovit note" and the supreme court has said that such notes, while perhaps underhanded, are legal. So, you are absolutely correct in saying that "the players "give up their right to due process". However, the players are not "required" to do so, as they can simply choose not to sign and not to become a member.
One of the things that I guess I don't understand is why would a player would become a member if the UPA, if it is so bad? What has the UPA done to get such leverage on players?
Also, while the UPA, I guess...I don't really know, may be engaging in some underhanded conduct now, doesn't pool stand to gain quite a bit from a large and credible governing body of professional pool that can have the ability to garner large sponsors and stipulate to the skill level on tour? When the PGA was in its infancy I bet it didn't always act "saintly" to its players and promoters. i.e exclusion of minority players.
What I mean to say, is that professional pool may become more marketable if tournament sponors are guaranteed a certain skill level of players so when they (hopefully someday) put pool on TV there is not a match of Efren against me.
Thanks for answering my questions before
kollegedave
Ken in CT said:
K
Ken in CT
Guest
kollegedave said:
First, choosing not to sign doesn't solve the problems with the UPA. It simply prevents players from joining. They have a very good idea and I have heard that they are now giving the players a break and adhering to the terms listed on their website. Keeping their word finally is a step in the right direction.
The contract that I have is very unfair. This is supposed to be a "professional" organization. Nevertheless, if you want to play you most likely will lose money on average. It is unfair to make you sign a contract that requires that you play in every tournament and lose money in most of them. Few players can afford to travel far without any likelihood of making expenses but if you don't you will be in violation. I don't think even the WPBA is that restrictive.
I see no problem with giving the UPA the right to use names and images to promote the tournaments but they are actually making products and selling them to make money without the players getting any cut.
If you are interested in seeing the contract from last year, just enable emails and I'll send you a copy if I can send attachments.
Ken in CT
kollegedave said:
Leverage?
The BCA allowed the UPA ranking system to be used nationwide at major venues.
For example, the BCA Open uses the UPA ranking system for its invitation-only tournament. If an American pool player is not a member of the UPA, he will not be "invited" by World Class Management, the subcontractor of the BCA who handles the tournament as well as participant selection, to compete in the BCA Open in Vegas coming up next month, unless he is a member of the Hall of Fame or hails from a foreign country.
The UPA ranking system was also used at the 2003 U.S. Open in Virginia Beach, the same tournament that was boycotted by the then-president of the UPA, ironically.
If a pool player is unable to join the UPA for whatever reason, contract dispute or personality conflict with its president, he is not afforded the same rights as UPA "touring pros."
Ken, they are working on a new contract to be released sometime this summer.
ManlyShot
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K
Ken in CT
Guest
It's not necessary to include the quote but that is the default condition with this software. It is easy to include the quote and takes an extra step to edit or remove it.
I think you will also find it very easy just to not read the quote. Try it. It might require an extra mouse click on your part. Sorry about that. I know it's annoying and I usually prefer not to include the quote.
I think you will also find it very easy just to not read the quote. Try it. It might require an extra mouse click on your part. Sorry about that. I know it's annoying and I usually prefer not to include the quote.
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