VNEA Rules

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NittiFan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Last Night in our VNEA league we had a peculiar situation develope. Player A breaks and comes up dry, open table for player B. Player B shoots and pockets the 14 ball and makes the eight out of turn.

Here's the part we were stumped on...

Does Player B get the point for pocketing the 14 ball? I scoured the rule book and it is not covered. Any of ya run into this situation. BTW we gave the guy the point. :)

Mike
 
NittiFan said:
Does Player B get the point for pocketing the 14 ball? I scoured the rule book and it is not covered. Any of ya run into this situation. BTW we gave the guy the point. :)

Mike
Click to expand...

I don't have my VNEA rule book with me but since no one has legitimately pocketed a ball, the assignment of who is high and low ball is still up in the air. So how do you know who to give the point to? My guess is that it should be a 10-0 win for the other guy... IMHHO.
 
Hamster...

Yeah that was discussed, but, pocketing the eight ball is not a FOUL, only loss of game. He called the 14 ball and pocketed it into his called pocket then sank the eight??

Mike
 
open table i'd say 10-0. if there were one of each in the pockets when the loss happened (still open table), i'd score it 10-1. my interpretation is, on an open table, the loser gets the lesser of the two possible scores.

/my $.02

-s
 
The 14 isn't considered to be a legally pocketed ball as the ball was pocketed on a foul shot. Therefore, the point should not be counted and the game should be scored 10-0.
 
Rags...

Their argument was the shot was NOT foul?

Thanks for the input, could anyone quote from the VNEA bible?

Mike
 
wow

that is a tough one. I will ask tonight our president and see. My best guess would say 10-0
 
NittiFan said:
Hamster...

Yeah that was discussed, but, pocketing the eight ball is not a FOUL, only loss of game. He called the 14 ball and pocketed it into his called pocket then sank the eight??

Mike
Click to expand...

I just finished poring through the rule book and it seems there is no definitive answer. My take would be that loss of game is equivalent to a foul even though not listed as such because no penalty such as BIH is necessary and thus the 14 ball was not pocketed legally. 10-0.

Where's Bob Jewett when you need him?
 
The Hamster said:
I just finished poring through the rule book and it seems there is no definitive answer. My take would be that loss of game is equivalent to a foul even though not listed as such because no penalty such as BIH is necessary and thus the 14 ball was not pocketed legally. 10-0.

Where's Bob Jewett when you need him?
Click to expand...

I would concur with this assesment. IMO sinking the 8 out of turn is a foul resulting in a loss of game and therefore not a legal shot.
 
supergreenman said:
I would concur with this assesment. IMO sinking the 8 out of turn is a foul resulting in a loss of game and therefore not a legal shot.
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Our whole team rallied for this argument, 20 minutes later we relented and gave him the point, but, I agree with you on this.

Mike
 
NittiFan said:
Last Night in our VNEA league we had a peculiar situation develope. Player A breaks and comes up dry, open table for player B. Player B shoots and pockets the 14 ball and makes the eight out of turn.

Here's the part we were stumped on...

Does Player B get the point for pocketing the 14 ball? I scoured the rule book and it is not covered. Any of ya run into this situation. BTW we gave the guy the point. :)

Mike
Click to expand...

IMO, it should be a 10-0. The 14-ball was dropped, but the shot was a foul... the ultimate foul. So, the 14-ball shouldn't count. IMO.

But, you can make a legitimate case that dropping the 8-ball isn't a foul, and that it's simply a loss of game. Either way, this question comes up often in the 10-pt. counting leagues. It should be explicit in the rule books.

Fred <~~~ and don't get me started on shooting the wrong set of balls in
 
The Hamster said:
I just finished poring through the rule book and it seems there is no definitive answer. My take would be that loss of game is equivalent to a foul even though not listed as such because no penalty such as BIH is necessary and thus the 14 ball was not pocketed legally. 10-0.

Where's Bob Jewett when you need him?
Click to expand...
I think Bob would tell you that this is a league specific question and should be addressed by the leagues.

He'd then tell you that counting points per ball is a folly that can only result in bar fights and angry mobs. Bar owners take note.

Fred <~~~ how'd I do, Bob?
 
Cornerman said:
I think Bob would tell you that this is a league specific question and should be addressed by the leagues.

He'd then tell you that counting points per ball is a folly that can only result in bar fights and angry mobs. Bar owners take note.

Fred <~~~ how'd I do, Bob?
Click to expand...

Fred

Thanks for your comments, this is a tight knit community and we are all friends, argue, yes, fight, nah! We took all 6 points, own every round and total, so the point was not a big deal. I did pm the guys at Valley, but, who knows how long a decision from them could take.

Mike
 
The Hamster said:
I just finished poring through the rule book and it seems there is no definitive answer. My take would be that loss of game is equivalent to a foul even though not listed as such because no penalty such as BIH is necessary and thus the 14 ball was not pocketed legally. 10-0.

Where's Bob Jewett when you need him?
Click to expand...
The score is 10-0. I am a vnea ref.
 
NittiFan said:
Last Night in our VNEA league we had a peculiar situation develope. Player A breaks and comes up dry, open table for player B. Player B shoots and pockets the 14 ball and makes the eight out of turn.

Mike
Click to expand...

On one occasion in my first VNEA season I had the misfortune of this exact situation. My opponent broke, made nothing & I had an open table. Made a stripe in the corner pocket & then watched the cueball come back into the eight pocketing it into the side.

The score - 10-0.
 
Cornerman said:
IMO, it should be a 10-0. The 14-ball was dropped, but the shot was a foul... the ultimate foul. So, the 14-ball shouldn't count. IMO.

But, you can make a legitimate case that dropping the 8-ball isn't a foul, and that it's simply a loss of game. Either way, this question comes up often in the 10-pt. counting leagues. It should be explicit in the rule books.

Fred <~~~ and don't get me started on shooting the wrong set of balls in
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind getting you started on shooting the wrong suit of balls in. I noticed this rule change on the BCA webpage http://www.bca-pool.com/play/ under the link 2006 rule changes

Rule 4.10 states: If the groups have been determined and the player mistakenly shoots at and pockets a ball of the opponent's group, the opponent MUST call a foul on him before he takes another shot. If he fails to do so, the player automatically takes over the group of balls (stripes or solids) at which he has been shooting at during this inning. :confused: :eek:

In other words you can legally hijack your opponents balls if you're quick enough(and unethical enough) to do it while he isn't looking.
 
etimmons said:
The score is 10-0. I am a vnea ref.
Click to expand...

Is there a specific rule that you used to determine this, or was it just covered in one of the meetings?

Thanks

Woody
 
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