Why would you use a break cue??

[The Renfro]

I keep seeing the question over and over from people of why do you need a break cue? Shane doesn't use one and countless other players have chimed in on doing the same thing so...

Shane is sponsored so any damage he does is covered and he also uses a Kamui hard tip that looks to be down to maybe 4 layers... He can't compress that tip any further than it already is......

As far as everyone else who breaks with their player I would have to assume most of them don't generate pro speed power to begin with... Like it or not most players will do well to hit 20mph....

But lets say you are one of the payers NOT using the break cue and hitting at or above 20mph.... Lets say you are using a hard tip because if you aren't over 20 is shortening the life of a soft or medium and turning it into a hard tip in short order... So you break and hit 20mph with your hard layered tip... I'll use the Samsara energy transfer here and tell you to break 20mph with the samsara you had to generate a cue speed of 27.4 mph... The same cue speed using a BK2 or Mezz or one of the new OBs with synthetic tips and designed for breaking would result in a break speed of over 24mph.....

SO you say you like the spread and control of only breaking 20mph... /rollseyes Well what if I told you... fine you can swing a "good" break cue at 22.5mph and generate your 20mph break speed....

Efficiency is about the same or more work from lesser amounts of energy.....


The following is a list of reasons to use a break cue:


1) You do not use a hard tip on your playing cue

and

2) You actually break harder than say 20mph..

or

3) You want to maximize your break speed without having to swing harder....

That's pretty much it... For years players broke with their playing cues regardless of the cost and did fine... They did not have the benefit of some of the advancements we have these days.... There is no way to even assume that if they were playing today that they would not be using break cues... This assumption is as stupid a the folks who point to Mosconi's run being done with solid maple... Hell me might have doubled it if he had been using LD.... For me to say that is a stupid as assuming Willie would not have dropped maple for LD technology if he were coming into his prime today... Just no way to know one way or the other......

Most cues are going to be fine breaking with them but I can also use a shoe as a hammer and a butter knife as a screwdriver... Some tools are just better for the job than others... OF course I will add this caveat... I think my mother may do a better job with the shoe than the hammer.. You have to be familiar with and learn to use ANY tool in your tool box.. IF you don't do that maybe it really won't make any difference to you....

ohh wait..... I forgot reason #4

4) All the cool kids have them and I have this extra room in my case =)

Chris <~~~~ definitely using all 4 reasons.......

 

[nobcitypool]

How about a 5th reason? I use an OB 2 11.75 mm shaft which may be more susceptible to damage at even moderate break speeds than a 13 mm maple shaft.

Not 100% sure that is valid but it seems to be logical.

 

[Nine ... corner]

At home I just use one of my "house cues" to break and when in a pool room I use one of their house cues to break. Problem solved. I don't need to be one of the "cool kids" that has his own break cue.

 

[The Renfro]

How about a 5th reason? I use an OB 2 11.75 mm shaft which may be more susceptible to damage at even moderate break speeds than a 13 mm maple shaft.

Not 100% sure that is valid but it seems to be logical.

At moderate speeds I don't think you are in danger of damaging the shaft... But to me moderate would be likely under 20mph.... The only way I could answer that question would be if you had an idea of what you meant by moderate... The breakspeed app is a pretty cool investment... I'd look at it like this... Get the App... Check your speed... You don't need a rollcage in your car unless you are running the 8th Mile in under 7.50 seconds... You don't NEED a break cue if you are breaking under 20mph and should be safe with the OB2......

 

[fastone371]

Because its really, really, funny to see someone hit the long rail before the rack when they ask to borrow your break cue because they have never hit with a phenolic tip before.:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:

 

[AlexandruM]

My player cue has a 11.75 tip, a Balance Rite Extension and almost 22 oz, so I break with a shorter Mezz PB 18 oz. That's my reason. Oh and I don't have a monster break speed.

 

[The Renfro]

At home I just use one of my "house cues" to break and when in a pool room I use one of their house cues to break. Problem solved. I don't need to be one of the "cool kids" that has his own break cue.

The most common thing I get asked by players to help with is their break... I could do the soft and accurate and square dance like some instructors and I would not be answering truthfully...

The break is like the drive in golf.. Everyone wants more power....

There are several things about the break that are not normal to the pool stroke... The grip, body movement, lengthening of the lever of the stroking arm...

If I teach someone to generate power thru break fundamentals it may take them hours and hours to get it right and start doing it accuratey and effectively.... OR I can hand them my break cue... In some instances the break cue is enough of a power changer that they do not need to do much else to hit 24mph......

I say 24mph because this is the average speed of the 9ball break at the pro level when the idea is to make a ball, park whitey, and leave the 1ball in front of the corner pocket when using a conventional rack.......

Chris

 

[The Renfro]

Blah, blah, blah--get back into your garage and finish perfecting my new break tip

=P LOL This conversation is exactly why I keep working on the break tips... am at 80 COR... Pretty sporty for leather but I intend to do better... Gonna post chalk videos tonight... So tune back n tomorrow....

=) Chris

 

[DrGonzo]

Because the last thing I want to do is put a crack in my ivory jointed playing cue from leaning into a break.

 

[DirtyJersey]

I don't understand your post. So are you for or against break cues? Personally I use 1 and like using it. Much easier to generate power over a standard cue. I don't get the other posts with the hate on break cues either, don't like it don't use it. Seems simple.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

I keep seeing the question over and over from people of why do you need a break cue? Shane doesn't use one and countless other players have chimed in on doing the same thing so....

Hate to burst your bubble, but recently, Shane has been using his break cue more and more. It started about halfway through 2013 that he started using it more often. I haven't seen but one tournament this year where he's hard breaking and doesn't use it. That race to 50 with Nikos he used his break cue. And last I heard he switched to a medium brown kamui.

I say 24mph because this is the average speed of the 9ball break at the pro level when the idea is to make a ball, park whitey, and leave the 1ball in front of the corner pocket when using a conventional rack.......

Chris

If you mean the average 10 ball break is 24 mph, sure. 9 ball, even when 'clubbing' the break, most do not go above 22 mph. Why? Because at 4 mph you've already hit the rack hard enough to make a ball, over doing it is just going to make clusters. Yes people like Thorsten and Bustamante do break 9 ball a little harder than the rest, but not that much harder. It's more due to the cue elevation when hitting the rack that gives the illusion of the harder hit.

 

[Kim Bye]

1. I break at 20-22mph
2. I dont want to damage my WX900 shafts
3. I like a bigger tip on my break than my playing cue
4. I dont want to compress my lovely Zan tips more than i have to..

 

[Lesh]

I have a growing suspicion that the break is more about WHERE you hit the rack rather than how hard u hit it. I can launch a cue.ball at well over 25mph... I have a stroke. But I have a more productive 8 ball break at 18 to20 mph.

Lesh

 

[Banks]

I know that my j/b launches the CB a little more quickly, so I'll use it in certain situations. For the most part, I know my break better with my playing cue, which coincidentally has a flat, hard tip. On big tables, I'm a little more likely to use the break cue.

 

[Nullus]

I keep seeing the question over and over from people of why do you need a break cue? Shane doesn't use one and countless other players have chimed in on doing the same thing so...

Shane is sponsored so any damage he does is covered and he also uses a Kamui hard tip that looks to be down to maybe 4 layers... He can't compress that tip any further than it already is......

As far as everyone else who breaks with their player I would have to assume most of them don't generate pro speed power to begin with... Like it or not most players will do well to hit 20mph....

But lets say you are one of the payers NOT using the break cue and hitting at or above 20mph.... Lets say you are using a hard tip because if you aren't over 20 is shortening the life of a soft or medium and turning it into a hard tip in short order... So you break and hit 20mph with your hard layered tip... I'll use the Samsara energy transfer here and tell you to break 20mph with the samsara you had to generate a cue speed of 27.4 mph... The same cue speed using a BK2 or Mezz or one of the new OBs with synthetic tips and designed for breaking would result in a break speed of over 24mph.....

SO you say you like the spread and control of only breaking 20mph... /rollseyes Well what if I told you... fine you can swing a "good" break cue at 22.5mph and generate your 20mph break speed....

Efficiency is about the same or more work from lesser amounts of energy.....


The following is a list of reasons to use a break cue:


1) You do not use a hard tip on your playing cue

and

2) You actually break harder than say 20mph..

or

3) You want to maximize your break speed without having to swing harder....

That's pretty much it... For years players broke with their playing cues regardless of the cost and did fine... They did not have the benefit of some of the advancements we have these days.... There is no way to even assume that if they were playing today that they would not be using break cues... This assumption is as stupid a the folks who point to Mosconi's run being done with solid maple... Hell me might have doubled it if he had been using LD.... For me to say that is a stupid as assuming Willie would not have dropped maple for LD technology if he were coming into his prime today... Just no way to know one way or the other......

Most cues are going to be fine breaking with them but I can also use a shoe as a hammer and a butter knife as a screwdriver... Some tools are just better for the job than others... OF course I will add this caveat... I think my mother may do a better job with the shoe than the hammer.. You have to be familiar with and learn to use ANY tool in your tool box.. IF you don't do that maybe it really won't make any difference to you....

ohh wait..... I forgot reason #4

4) All the cool kids have them and I have this extra room in my case =)

Chris <~~~~ definitely using all 4 reasons.......

Not entirely true. I have seen Shane use a break cue on several occasions. While he may not always use one, he has at times.

 

[The Renfro]

Hate to burst your bubble, but recently, Shane has been using his break cue more and more. It started about halfway through 2013 that he started using it more often. I haven't seen but one tournament this year where he's hard breaking and doesn't use it. That race to 50 with Nikos he used his break cue. And last I heard he switched to a medium brown kamui.

Mileage may vary for sure... At the Accu-Stats All Around he was breaking with his player and the tip he had on was 4 layers thick.. It was a brown Kamui so regardless of what he bought it was a hard brown by that point.. I didn't pay attention to the Nikos match but Shane has been keeping his extension on his playing cue so it would make sense to use the break cue to me as it will be lighter and easier to control...

If you mean the average 10 ball break is 24 mph, sure. 9 ball, even when 'clubbing' the break, most do not go above 22 mph. Why? Because at 4 mph you've already hit the rack hard enough to make a ball, over doing it is just going to make clusters. Yes people like Thorsten and Bustamante do break 9 ball a little harder than the rest, but not that much harder. It's more due to the cue elevation when hitting the rack that gives the illusion of the harder hit.

The 10ball break is actually broken a little harder on average usually 25-26 from the chances I have had to get the app up at tournaments...

At the US Open 9-Ball I had the opportunity to check the break speeds from the camera pit on the TV matches a few years back... On average the pros was breaking around 24mph with Shane at 25.5 and Buste at 26.... Corey was the soft breaker and he was still at 21.....


As far am I in favor or not.... I think almost everyone could benefit from a "good" break cue as it is a more efficient tool.. But if you don't break hard and don't want the expense then don't sweat it since you likely won't hurt anything... If you do break hard consider it an investment.. In more than one way.....

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

The 10ball break is actually broken a little harder on average usually 25-26 from the chances I have had to get the app up at tournaments...

At the US Open 9-Ball I had the opportunity to check the break speeds from the camera pit on the TV matches a few years back... On average the pros was breaking around 24mph with Shane at 25.5 and Buste at 26.... Corey was the soft breaker and he was still at 21.....


As far am I in favor or not.... I think almost everyone could benefit from a "good" break cue as it is a more efficient tool.. But if you don't break hard and don't want the expense then don't sweat it since you likely won't hurt anything... If you do break hard consider it an investment.. In more than one way.....

If your placement of the cue ball is slightly backward from where they're breaking from, that will give you the increased speed you're seeing in the app. It took me a long time to try and figure out what dials in the most perfect results for the breakspeed app. Placement of the phone in relation to their breaking position is what matters the most, solely so the phones mic gets a clean capture of the break. I've had three phones on different spots of the table all give different results. They were all within 1mph of each other, but the same app on the same break gives different results. Now the variances of cue ball placement allowed for more than a 2 mph difference.

Also, don't be influenced by how high the ball jumps up on the break as an indication of how hard it was struck. How far backwards the cue ball rebounds is a better indicator. When SVB breaks and the cue ball rebounds back to the first diamond before the side pocket and second bounce stops around the kitchen line, that's a 27 mph break. Having the cue ball rebound to the side pocket then stop at the diamond between the side pockets and kitchen is around a 25 mph break.

But you're right, now that SVB is using the extension, he is using his break cue more often.

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

No real point in using a break cue on a bar table imo. Larger tables I say its up to the individual :thumbup:

 

[boogeyman]

.....The following is a list of reasons to use a break cue:
1) You do not use a hard tip on your playing cue
2) You actually break harder than say 20mph..
3) You want to maximize your break speed without having to swing harder....
4) All the cool kids have them and I have this extra room in my case =)Chris <~~~~ definitely using all 4 reasons.......

Your listed reasons for using a break cue seem reasonable.
Now, when I play, I use a house stick...I break with the same house stick...
never seem to have a problem.
The market has grown to a point where different types of sticks are in the market.
Normal economics.

I totally agree with what SVB does. One does NOT need a break stick—silly.

Do tennis players serve with one racquet and then quickly change to another when volleying? Of course not.

Having a break stick is fine but IMHO totally not necessary.
If it's good enough for a house cue to break with, why not a decently made "regular" cue.

No doubt, many feel so inclined because of reason number four (above)?

 

[slide13]

Do tennis players serve with one racquet and then quickly change to another when volleying? Of course not.

No they don't...because they can't, there is no way enough time to make a switch. If the game allowed the time for it though I can almost guarantee you that they would. Might be a different racquet, different head size, or at least different strings and tension. It's such a unique and specialized shot compared to the rest of the game that I think the serve could probably benefit from a specialized tool, just no way to switch to a playing racquet fast enough for the return.

This analogy is about as useful as comparing to golfers with a bag of 14 clubs....it's a different game, doesn't matter what they do.

I think a break cue is useful but not necessary. I like my hard Samsara tip for breaking and I like not having to worry about flattening my playing tip over time and wearing it out faster due to excessive shaping. I also like a flatter tip profile on my breaker and a more rounded one on my playing cue.