winners' break injudicious

  • Thread starter Thread starter Siarozha
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Siarozha

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On our Russian billiards forum we were discussing the last WPC in Cardiff. Most of us who plays Pyramid (Russian) don't see a common sense in the format when the winner breaks.

Our view was proved by many matches when one of the players could only sit nearby and watch his opponent play and had no chance to demostrate his skills at all.

It's a pure lottery but not a competition. You should give a personal table to each player so that they can play simultaneously. The winner is the one who has pocketed #9 first.
That's would be more fairly.

The alternate break must be.

(sorry for my bad English, I hope you see what I mean)
 
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Thanks, but can anyone explain why the officials prefer the 'winner breaks' system?
Our pool players also against the alternate break.
 
This question has no answer really. Winner, loser, or alternating breaks has been discussed for years.

From the tour directors side: If you have 96 players and 10 tables then winner breaks is the only time compatable aternative to finish a tournament in 2 days.

From the players side: Loser or alternating breaks evens the game for the lesser player a little. But this takes about twice as much time to play a set.

No matter how it is played, it seems the same names end up at the top in the end.

Good Luck :)
 
that is an answer.
i cannot say i'm satisfied, but anyway thanks to all
 
Ruthless said:
From the tour directors side: If you have 96 players and 10 tables then winner breaks is the only time compatable aternative to finish a tournament in 2 days.
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race to what?
 
What exactly is pyramid? Is there a site where i can find out more about this game?
 
Skeezicks,

Most bigger tournaments are race to 9, with either one race to 13 or race to 11 with the winner of the one loss side having to win two sets.

Making the races shorter would save time by which you could add the alternating break format. In the case of the shorter set and alternating break format you may as well add handicraps also. Because both the shorter sets and alternating breaks give the advantage to a weaker player.

Open tournaments are just that "Open". In these we don't need any handicrap, these are to see who plays the best at a certain point in time. If I get beat (like I did this past weekend) it is my own fault 100% for making mistakes that I should have not made. We can't try the system like NASCAR carb. restriction plates to level the field. Just practice harder or play handicrap tournaments.

Not aimed at you, but these are the facts.
 
Winner breaks is what's so beautiful about pool. It's how lower ranked pro-players can beat any top players at any time, who wins is usually who is breaking better that day.
 
pro-player said:
Winner breaks is what's so beautiful about pool. It's how lower ranked pro-players can beat any top players at any time, who wins is usually who is breaking better that day.
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Breaking or not. You DON'T give up the table until you MISS...

Alternating breaks is for TV Crap hungry FANS that don't know what a 50 or 100 ball run is all about. You want to see the game more even for all the players? Watch the women play. See what alternating breaks do for the game.. Still the top 5 women in all the simi's and above.. not much competion..

It's about being excellent at shot making and keeping your opponent in their seat.

If you make a shot, don't you keep shooting until you MISS?
 
Ruthless said:
Most bigger tournaments are race to 9, with either one race to 13 or race to 11 with the winner of the one loss side having to win two sets.
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How much time do you figure for a race to 9?
 
Tom In Cincy said:
Breaking or not. You DON'T give up the table until you MISS...

Alternating breaks is for TV Crap hungry FANS that don't know what a 50 or 100 ball run is all about. You want to see the game more even for all the players? Watch the women play. See what alternating breaks do for the game.. Still the top 5 women in all the simi's and above.. not much competion..

It's about being excellent at shot making and keeping your opponent in their seat.

If you make a shot, don't you keep shooting until you MISS?
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I see you have very strong feelings about this. LOL
 
That would be true if it wasn't for the fact of the break, this is is and will always be pure luck. As it stands at the top level the thing which usually decides matches is the break, anybody that understands pool and professional sport can see that this is a farce. The mact should be decided on skill, alternating breaks means both players get an equal opportunity to demonstarte their skill, sadly though mother luck will always play a part due to the break. Unlike snooker, the break in 9 ball just plays to big a part in the match. It could be 9:9 in the world final and depending on how your luck is on the day, you are either world champion or runner up. I'm sure there are some but I can't think of any other sport where luck plays such a huge part?
 
You guys have got to be kidding me! Anybody who thinks that the break shot and the layout of the table after the break shot is "luck" has never made an effort to figure it out. Like every other shot in pool practice makes perfect and the break is no exception. Alternating breaks are OKAY, and can sometimes level the field but that is just another way to handicap a better player. The women have had good success using the alternating break system but excuse me for saying this (GREMLIN) they don't play anywhere near the level of the male pros and none of them are going to put too many 5-packs together anyways.
 
Not luck! Lol, if it wasn't luck, a guy would sink one everytime and they'd all fall in the same place!

OK, lets make the players call the ball before the break then LOL!

Thats the funniest thing i've ever heard!

You made my day

:-))
 
Gremlin said:
Example; Gay-Young Kim a 20 year old young lady who takes a 3 cushion kick to get out of jail and then tells me I shoud have made that shot I do in practice. LOL We almost died with laughter. Ms. Kim hung the 7 ball up or she would have made the shot.
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Sorry, I don't understand what she told you. Could you explain that again?

Tom that TV crap you are talking about is the most important item for marketing pool. The ladies have most of it and the men don't. "WHY?" Because the ladys don't run rack after boring rack.
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I understand that marketing is important for the development of the game at the professional level, but Tom makes a good point about long runs being a classic yardstick. I'd hate to see the game deteriorate for the sake of attracting viewers. That keep-the-fans-happy mentality can also cheapen the game. I can easily see the day when players would be required to make so many banks, kicks, and jumps per match.
 
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I would love to see the sport grow more. But that goes back to changing attitudes of the men players.

And the reason that the WPBA is on TV has nothing to do with not running racks! The reason they are on TV is because they go get the sponsors and the men believe the sponsors should chase them. Also the women tend to have better attitudes about not finishing first. They can accept a second place finish, where men just bitch about how they lost. That is the bottom line on that.

If you want major TV ratings. Why not combine the old XFL Football League & the UPA. That should bring some attention to the game.
 
This is where people like myself and others differ on 9-ball. Alternating breaks takes pool to a lower level than it should be played at. It is like handicapping both players. Here is an example of what great pool is: Two players are playing a race to 7, the score is 6-0. The losing player suddenly starts playing amazing, and runs 7 racks to win the match. That is great pool. If if was 6-0 with alternating breaks, the losing player has no chance to catch up, since every other game his opponent will be at the table. Pool is probably the only game, where it is possible for someone to lose without ever getting a chance to play. I accept that, and every top player accepts that, and loves the game for that too. I have lost countless tournaments or money games in races to 5, 7, or 9, and only had 4 or 5 trips to the table, usually hidden behind a ball. I accept that, and I don't get upset. When people play pool at a lower form, that is when they get upset when that happens against someone good, because THE DIFFERENCE between top level 9-ball and low level 9-ball is top players rely on the break and the table layout, while low end players rely on their opponent's frequent mistakes.
 
Gremlin, thats what I was saying, the break is totally luck and everyone knows it. They need to eliminate this factor from the game as much as possible.

Craig
 
And I do not agree that 9-ball should be played in the olympics, since it is so reliant on the break. 10-ball is much harder to pocket balls on the break, and brings new and more interesting aspects to the game because of that.
 
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